On 11 Apr 2013, at 21:31, Craig Weinberg wrote:
On Thursday, April 11, 2013 2:24:44 PM UTC-4, Bruno Marchal wrote:
On 11 Apr 2013, at 17:28, Craig Weinberg wrote:
On Thursday, April 11, 2013 11:07:01 AM UTC-4, Bruno Marchal wrote:
On 10 Apr 2013, at 17:24, Craig Weinberg wrote:
On Saturday, April 6, 2013 6:49:45 AM UTC-4, Bruno Marchal wrote:
On 06 Apr 2013, at 01:51, Craig Weinberg wrote:
You already are aware of the relevant aspects of your brain
function, and aware of them in a way which is a million times
more detailed than any fMRI could ever be.
No, you bet on them. You are not aware of your brain, in any
direct way. Some antic believed consciousness comes from the
liver. That consciousness is related to a brain is a theory, there
are only evidence, we cannot experience any theory.
By the same understanding that we know the brain is more likely to
be the seat of consciousness than the liver, we also know that
whatever we experience personally is most available impersonally
as brain activity. We can manipulate brain activity magnetically
and experience a change in our consciousness, when the same is not
true of any other organ. This does not mean that our experience is
caused by the brain or that brain characteristics can be
translated into conscious qualities, but the correlation shows us
that what an fMRI reveals is the correlation of events between
space-time body and sensory-motor self. Far from being a map, most
of the private experience is utterly opposite and unrecognizable
to any of the forms or functions on the 'other side.'
I was just saying that we are aware of our experience, then we
built theories. Some of those theories are instinctive, other are
build during early childhood, and others are brought by long
histories. We are not experiencing a brain. In fact we can't
according to the usual theory that there are no sensory neurons in
the brain.
If we are sitting inside of an airplane, it could be said that we
don't 'directly experience' the airplane, as we might not be able
to tell the difference, if we woke up there, between the seats on a
plane and the seats on a train. If a piece of the plane fell off
though, then we would be able to infer air travel. The same goes
for the brain. We are only aware of it when some unexpected
experience is presented. Tinnitus, vertigo, visual phosphenes,
proprioceptive changes, phantom smells, etc. All of these give us
direct experiences of our own neurology which are beyond theory.
It's multi-layered, so that on one level we do hear a sound that
sounds like it is coming from outside of our body, but on another
level we can test and understand that it can't be.
As much as it is quite plausible, the brain existence is theoretical.
Tinnitus, vertigo, visual phosphenes, proprioceptive changes,
phantom smells, etc. All of these give us *direct* experiences of
tinnitus, vertigo, visual phosphenes, proprioceptive changes, and
phantom smells, and provide only *indirect* evidence that, perhaps,
there is a brain, in some possible reality.
Each one of those however are experiences which expose the medium
itself.
How could something like be possible?
Like a lens flare in photography, or pixelation in a video, the
phenomena not only reveals a non-purposive sensory artifact, but the
particular intrusive quality of the artifact actually reflects the
art itself. This is what the neurological symptoms tell us - not
that we have a brain and that it is real,
OK, then.
but that there is more to our nature than to simply be a clear
conduit to an objectively real universe. In this way, our senses
provide us not only with simple truth, but also simple doubt which
leads us to sophisticated truth, which then leads to sophisticated
doubt, and finally a reconciled truth (multisense realism).
OK. Note that the hypostases might play the role of the "multisense"
in the comp theory.
Both inside and outside of the body, and the body themselves are
theoretical constructs, which might have, or not, some reality,
primitive or not.
I'm not so big on the power of the theoretical. To me theory is only
as good as the access it provides to understanding.
Exactly.
Bruno
Craig
Bruno
Craig
Bruno
Craig
Bruno
http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
Groups "Everything List" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,
send an email to everything-li...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to everyth...@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en
.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
Groups "Everything List" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,
send an email to everything-li...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to everyth...@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en
.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
Groups "Everything List" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,
send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en
.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
"Everything List" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email
to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.