2013/5/23 meekerdb <meeke...@verizon.net> > On 5/23/2013 7:07 AM, smi...@zonnet.nl wrote: > >> Citeren Bruno Marchal <marc...@ulb.ac.be>: >> >> >>> On 23 May 2013, at 00:05, meekerdb wrote: >>> >>> On 5/22/2013 2:49 PM, smi...@zonnet.nl wrote: >>>> >>>>> Thought experiment: Suppose that someone has never experienced >>>>> touching hot objects before. As long as this person does not find out >>>>> that touching hot objects is painful, either by touching hot objects >>>>> himself or by being told that it is painful, he will be in a >>>>> superposition >>>>> of two sectors of the multiverse where he has and has not the ability to >>>>> feel extreme pain when touching very hot objects. >>>>> >>>>> The sector where he does not have the ability to feel pain has a very >>>>> small amplitude, there evolution has run a different course. In the other >>>>> sector evoluton has run the course where the ancestors in the first >>>>> sector >>>>> ddidn't survive, it where the creatures with some mutation that lead to >>>>> them feeling pain when touching hot objects that survived here. >>>>> >>>>> The mere act of touching a hot object is a measuremnt which locates >>>>> the person in the latter sector, only then does the outcome of the >>>>> events >>>>> that happened a long time ago become determined. >>>>> >>>> >>>> That assumes that the "same person" exists up to the moment of >>>> measurement, differing, via FPI, only in the ability to feel pain. I >>>> doubt that is possible. There is a common assumption that QM makes >>>> anything possible, but it actually imposes some restrictions, although >>>> it's hard to say how they extend to the biology of macroscopic beings. >>>> >>> >>> I agree. Even in comp there are "terrible" restrictions on what comp >>> states exist and how they are first person and third person related. >>> Indeed that's why we can extract physics (and a whole theology) from >>> numbers and + and *. >>> >>> Bruno >>> >>> >>> http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~**marchal/ <http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> It can be shown quite rigorously that everything that is not strictly >> forbidden by conservation laws, must happen in generic multiverse >> scenarios. >> > > Do you have a citation for that? And how do you know what conservation > laws there are? > > > But then, the whole point I'm making is that the information in your >> brain that makes you feel something comes not out of thin air, but >> precisely due to evolution. So, you feeling pain comes about via ordinary >> down to earth quantum mechanics, which links this straightforwardly to the >> deaths of those creatures that by dying and not becoming your ancestors, >> gave rise to your ability to feel pain. >> > > Of course I agree that the "gave rise to". But that's not the same > supposing they were in a superposition with you up until the moment you > felt a pain. That seems to reserve to consciousness the ability to > "collapse the wave function". >
Well if all "universes" still exists after the measurement, it just gives the ability for consciousness to localize itself... not collapsing anything which seems right. To collapse the wave function would mean that after self localisation, only one universe would remain. It does not seems that was what Saibal was implying. Regards, Quentin > > Brent > > > >> Saibal >> >> >> >> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "Everything List" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to >>> everything-list+unsubscribe@**googlegroups.com<everything-list%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com> >>> . >>> To post to this group, send email to >>> everything-list@googlegroups.**com<everything-list@googlegroups.com> >>> . >>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/** >>> group/everything-list?hl=en<http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en> >>> . >>> For more options, visit >>> https://groups.google.com/**groups/opt_out<https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out> >>> . >>> >> >> >> > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to > everything-list+unsubscribe@**googlegroups.com<everything-list%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com> > . > To post to this group, send email to > everything-list@googlegroups.**com<everything-list@googlegroups.com> > . > Visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/**group/everything-list?hl=en<http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en> > . > For more options, visit > https://groups.google.com/**groups/opt_out<https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out> > . > > > -- All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list?hl=en. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
