Citeren meekerdb <meeke...@verizon.net>:
On 5/23/2013 7:07 AM, smi...@zonnet.nl wrote:
Citeren Bruno Marchal <marc...@ulb.ac.be>:
On 23 May 2013, at 00:05, meekerdb wrote:
On 5/22/2013 2:49 PM, smi...@zonnet.nl wrote:
Thought experiment: Suppose that someone has never experienced
touching hot objects before. As long as this person does not find
out that touching hot objects is painful, either by touching hot
objects himself or by being told that it is painful, he will be
in a superposition of two sectors of the multiverse where he has
and has not the ability to feel extreme pain when touching very
hot objects.
The sector where he does not have the ability to feel pain has a
very small amplitude, there evolution has run a different course.
In the other sector evoluton has run the course where the
ancestors in the first sector ddidn't survive, it where the
creatures with some mutation that lead to them feeling pain when
touching hot objects that survived here.
The mere act of touching a hot object is a measuremnt which
locates the person in the latter sector, only then does the
outcome of the events that happened a long time ago become
determined.
That assumes that the "same person" exists up to the moment of
measurement, differing, via FPI, only in the ability to feel pain.
I doubt that is possible. There is a common assumption that QM
makes anything possible, but it actually imposes some
restrictions, although it's hard to say how they extend to the
biology of macroscopic beings.
I agree. Even in comp there are "terrible" restrictions on what
comp states exist and how they are first person and third person
related. Indeed that's why we can extract physics (and a whole
theology) from numbers and + and *.
Bruno
http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/
It can be shown quite rigorously that everything that is not
strictly forbidden by conservation laws, must happen in generic
multiverse scenarios.
Do you have a citation for that? And how do you know what
conservation laws there are?
See e.g. here:
http://arxiv.org/abs/gr-qc/0102010
for the proof for eternal inflation models.
But then, the whole point I'm making is that the information in your
brain that makes you feel something comes not out of thin air, but
precisely due to evolution. So, you feeling pain comes about via
ordinary down to earth quantum mechanics, which links this
straightforwardly to the deaths of those creatures that by dying and
not becoming your ancestors, gave rise to your ability to feel pain.
Of course I agree that the "gave rise to". But that's not the same
supposing they were in a superposition with you up until the moment
you felt a pain. That seems to reserve to consciousness the ability
to "collapse the wave function".
Brent
There is no collapse of the wavefunction, as also pointed out later in
this thread by Quentin, it's just that you localize yourself in that
sector where you have the reaction which you experience as pain.
Saibal
Saibal
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