On 14 Oct 2013, at 22:04, Craig Weinberg wrote:
On Monday, October 14, 2013 3:17:06 PM UTC-4, Bruno Marchal wrote:
On 14 Oct 2013, at 20:13, Craig Weinberg wrote:
On Sunday, October 13, 2013 5:03:45 AM UTC-4, Bruno Marchal wrote:
All object are conscious?
No objects are conscious.
We agree on this.
Not at all. It is here and now. I have already interview such
machines.
Are there any such machines available to interview online?
I can give you the code in Lisp, and it is up to you to find a good
free lisp. But don't mind too much, AUDA is an integral description
of the interview. Today, such interviews is done by paper and
pencils, and appears in books and papers.
You better buy Boolos 1979, or 1993, but you have to study more
logic too.
Doesn't it seem odd that there isn't much out there that is newer
than 20 years old,
That is simply wrong, and I don't see why you say that. But even if
that was true, that would prove nothing.
and that paper and pencils are the preferred instruments?
Maybe I was premature in saying it was promissory...it would appears
that there has not been any promise for it in quite some time.
It is almost applicable, but the hard part is that it is blind to
its own blindness, so that the certainty offered by mathematics
comes at a cost which mathematics has no choice but to deny
completely. Because mathematics cannot lie,
G* proves <>[]f
Even Peano Arithmetic can lie.
Mathematical theories (set of beliefs) can lie.
Only truth cannot lie, but nobody know the truth as such.
Something that is a paradox or inconsistent is not the same thing
as an intentional attempt to deceive. I'm not sure what 'G* proves
<>[]f' means but I think it will mean the same thing to anyone who
understands it, and not something different to the boss than it
does to the neighbor.
Actually it will have as much meaning as there are correct machines
(a lot), but the laws remains the same. Then adding the non-
monotonical umbrella, saving the LĂ´bian machines from the constant
mistakes and lies they do, provides different interpretation of []f,
like
I dream,
I die,
I get mad,
I am in a cul-de-sac
I get wrong
etc.
It will depend on the intensional nuances in play.
Couldn't the machine output the same product as musical notes or
colored pixels instead?
Why not. Humans can do that too.
it cannot intentionally tell the truth either, and no matter how
sophisticated and self-referential a logic it is based on, it can
never transcend its own alienation from feeling, physics, and
authenticity.
That is correct, but again, that is justifiable by all correct
sufficiently rich machines.
Not sure I understand. Are you saying that we, as rich machines,
cannot intentionally lie or tell the truth either?
No, I am saying that all correct machines can eventually justify
that if they are correct they can't express it, and if they are
consistent, it will be consistent they are wrong. So it means they
can eventually exploits the false locally. Team of universal numbers
get entangled in very subtle prisoner dilemma.
Universal machines can lie, and can crash.
That sounds like they can lie only when they calculate that they
must, not that they can lie intentionally because they enjoy it or
out of sadism.
That sounds like an opportunistic inference.
Bruno
Craig
Bruno
http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/
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