On Fri, Oct 18, 2013 at 5:56 PM, meekerdb <meeke...@verizon.net> wrote:
> On 10/18/2013 1:38 PM, Jason Resch wrote: > > > > > On Fri, Oct 18, 2013 at 11:27 AM, meekerdb <meeke...@verizon.net> wrote: > >> On 10/18/2013 12:26 AM, Jason Resch wrote: >> >> >> >> >> *On Thu, Oct 17, 2013 at 10:03 PM*, meekerdb <meeke...@verizon.net>wrote: >> >>> On 10/17/2013 6:04 PM, LizR wrote: >>> >>> On 18 October 2013 13:42, Jason Resch <jasonre...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>> The basis problem is no different from the "present" problem under >>>> special relativity: If we exist in many times across space time, why do we >>>> find ourselves in this particular "now"? >>>> >>>> I don't know about the basis problem, but the now problem is simple >>> to solve - we don't find ourselves in a particular now, find ourselves in >>> all the nows. >>> >>> >>> But *I *don't find myself in all the nows. Why not? >>> >> >> I've highlighted the answer for you. Why should anyone (including you) >> take the word of one particular Brent from one particular time, that other >> Brents do not find themselves in other times? >> >> >>> Note that in some basis I *am* in a superposition. >>> >> >> How does the theory of mind you are operating under predict what being >> in a superposition should feel like? >> >> >> First, my theory of mind makes mind dependent on classical processes in >> a physical brain - so it explains why experiences are of the classical. >> > > Okay. > > >> But Bruno's theory takes experience as logically prior to the physical. >> So he can't appeal to the physical aspects of the brain to make experience >> classical. >> > > He assumes this when he says our consciousness is supported by a Turing > emulable process. Turing machines are classical. > > >> >> Second, you and I are in superpositions relative to some bases. So how >> does it feel? >> >> > Let me make sure I understand the question. Let us say we are in a > metal box (like Schrodinger's cat), and we measure the spin state of some > electron's y-axis. Outside of this box, there is an observer, and from his > perspective, we within the box remain in a super position of having > measured both states. You are asking what it feels like to the person > inside the box in the superposition, from the perspective of the person > outside the box? > > If so, I think the answer is rather clear. It doesn't matter what the > person outside the box thinks, within the box the electron's spin is no > longer in the superposition, and neither is the person who measured it. > Their experiences have diverged. From the perspective of the person outside > the box, they know that the person inside will be performing the > measurement and has split. Had they known the entire state of the wave > function within the box, they could predict it is now in a superposition > where one observer has measured and written down "spin is up", and the > other where the observer has written "spin is down", but even from the > perspective of this external observer, he does not find any state in the > evolved wavefunction of the box where the two observers have some kind of > shared memory of seeing both states. > > > That's a Copenhagen description in which superpositions are destroyed > instead of just being dispersed into the enivronment. > Is that still the case is the box is completely isolated from the outside environment, such that the superposition can remain within the box from the perspective of those outside? > If you take MWI seriously the whole system (including the observers) are > in superpositions and to say that the observers see either "spin-up" or > "spin-down" is assuming that there is some projection operator that neatly > separates the superpositions in that basis. > Can't the whole superposition of the entire universe simply exist? Why do we need to indicate some particular basis? What purpose does the "projection operator" serve? > But to say that is the preferred basis is to beg the question. Not > begging the question is "the basis problem". > What is the basis problem? Thanks, Jason -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
