On Fri, Nov 1, 2013 at 6:09 PM, Bruno Marchal <marc...@ulb.ac.be> wrote: > > On 01 Nov 2013, at 15:17, Platonist Guitar Cowboy wrote: > > When some bully oversteps the line of decency, then by default any > discussion ceases to be rational. Then we are left with the choice to let it > be or denounce the crossing of our personalized line. > > With regards to this infinite back and forth, all the insults and cul-de-sac > arguments, with zero progress on this exchange with Julius Caesar, I believe > Quentin has every right to say "spammer" and "troll". > > Quentin's reaction and tone in this regard are more plausible to me than the > posts of JC. Increasingly so, in fact. PGC > > > I can't agree more. > > I don't understand why Quentin get nervous (once) on Richard, who was just > slow to see some point, and that happens to any of us, when tired, or > something (to be nervous, or to be slow). > Keep in mind people in this list lives under different amount of sun! > > But it is a sort of relief for me that you, and Quentin (and some others) > got also the feeling that JC might act as a bullyer or troll-like,. That's > clear, to *me* with his insulting tone when trying to deride any attempt to > study something. I am not too well placed to say that to Clark, so I think > that you and Quentin are ... rather courageous to witness this. That can > help everybody.
I think JC must have realised at some point that his initial objections were not valid but, by that point, he was too invested in proving you wrong. His more recent objections are more suspicious, because it's hard to believe that a smart guy who understands and explains complex ideas cannot see the problem with arguing in a way that goes against the usual meaning of probabilities. He's also insisting that you said things that we all can see that you have not (like the infamous back-paddling on definitions accusation). On the bright side, Bruno, people have been discussing your ideas for years and keep doing so. This is a huge victory, as any scientist knows. Trolling comes with exposure. There's no reason for you to be sad, really. Many of us are very happy that you and your ideas exist in this world, and it's even better that we get to discuss them with you. Best, Telmo. > About Roger Clough, his comment are in the topics, yet a bit aside the > conversations and thread, and a bit self-advertizing and repetitive, but I > would not qualify him as spam, although he is very near. Also, we get his > posts in double exemplars! > > Stephen Lin was definitely a spam, and, as someone (Telmo?) suggested, > possibly a bot. > > Bruno > > > > > > On Fri, Nov 1, 2013 at 2:45 PM, Richard Ruquist <yann...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> Telmo, Do you think Quentin should be banned for bullying? >> >> >> On Fri, Nov 1, 2013 at 9:39 AM, Telmo Menezes <te...@telmomenezes.com> >> wrote: >>> >>> On Fri, Nov 1, 2013 at 2:29 PM, Quentin Anciaux <allco...@gmail.com> >>> wrote: >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > 2013/11/1 Telmo Menezes <te...@telmomenezes.com> >>> >> >>> >> On Fri, Nov 1, 2013 at 12:14 PM, Richard Ruquist <yann...@gmail.com> >>> >> wrote: >>> >> > OK. I should have said "suggests intuitively: or "intuitively >>> >> > suggests" >>> >> > rather than merely "suggests that the universe is finite". However, >>> >> > your >>> >> > insult of categorizing me with roger and stephen lin is unmerited. >>> >> >>> >> And now you propagate the violence to people who have nothing to do >>> >> with this discussion. As much as I typically disagree with what Roger >>> >> says (and don't understand what Stephan Lin says), I don't like this >>> >> sort of reference. This is just good old-fashioned bullying. >>> > >>> > >>> > It's also true, but these people did everything to deserve that sort of >>> > "bullying", nobody forced these two individuals to spam the list. >>> >>> I would be ok with banning them for spamming, but I don't think that >>> anyone deserves bullying. >>> >>> > Quentin >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> > >>> >> > On Fri, Nov 1, 2013 at 7:01 AM, Quentin Anciaux <allco...@gmail.com> >>> >> > wrote: >>> >> >> >>> >> >> OK... but then you shouldn't have use that as an argument... I >>> >> >> respect >>> >> >> intuition, I don't respect using that as an argument. >>> >> >> >>> >> >> Quentin >>> >> >> >>> >> >> >>> >> >> 2013/11/1 Richard Ruquist <yann...@gmail.com> >>> >> >>> >>> >> >>> Intuition >>> >> >>> >>> >> >>> >>> >> >>> On Fri, Nov 1, 2013 at 5:17 AM, Quentin Anciaux >>> >> >>> <allco...@gmail.com> >>> >> >>> wrote: >>> >> >>>> >>> >> >>>> >>> >> >>>> Le 1 nov. 2013 00:39, "Richard Ruquist" <yann...@gmail.com> a >>> >> >>>> écrit : >>> >> >>>> > >>> >> >>>> > John, you are not the first that Quentin has categorized as a >>> >> >>>> > roger >>> >> >>>> > or >>> >> >>>> > stephen lin. Richard >>> >> >>>> >>> >> >>>> What does suggest that the universe is finite in the fact that >>> >> >>>> we've >>> >> >>>> found a fully formed galaxy 700 millions years after the big >>> >> >>>> bang? >>> >> >>>> Quentin >>> >> >>>> > >>> >> >>>> > On Thu, Oct 31, 2013 at 5:19 PM, Quentin Anciaux >>> >> >>>> > <allco...@gmail.com> >>> >> >>>> > wrote: >>> >> >>>> >>> >> >>>> >>> >> >>>> >> >>> >> >>>> >> >>> >> >>>> >> >>> >> >>>> >> >>> >> >>>> >> 2013/10/31 John Clark <johnkcl...@gmail.com> >>> >> >>>> >>> >>> >> >>>> >>> On Thu, Oct 31, 2013 at 2:45 PM, Quentin Anciaux >>> >> >>>> >>> <allco...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >> >>>> >>> >>> >> >>>> >>>>> >> As I said before there is a profound difference between >>> >> >>>> >>>>> >> the >>> >> >>>> >>>>> >> two. After Everett's thought experiment is over only ONE >>> >> >>>> >>>>> >> person is seen by a >>> >> >>>> >>>>> >> third party so it's easy to determine who "you" is and >>> >> >>>> >>>>> >> easy >>> >> >>>> >>>>> >> to determine if >>> >> >>>> >>>>> >> predictions about what "you" will see were right or >>> >> >>>> >>>>> >> wrong, >>> >> >>>> >>>>> >> but with Bruno's >>> >> >>>> >>>>> >> thought experiment TWO people can be clearly seen that >>> >> >>>> >>>>> >> have >>> >> >>>> >>>>> >> a equal right to >>> >> >>>> >>>>> >> the title "you" which means that the predictions about >>> >> >>>> >>>>> >> what >>> >> >>>> >>>>> >> "you" will see >>> >> >>>> >>>>> >> are useless. And another difference is that Everett was >>> >> >>>> >>>>> >> talking about >>> >> >>>> >>>>> >> prediction and probability, and neither has anything to >>> >> >>>> >>>>> >> do >>> >> >>>> >>>>> >> with identity or >>> >> >>>> >>>>> >> a sense of self. [...] In Everett's case we know who >>> >> >>>> >>>>> >> "you" >>> >> >>>> >>>>> >> is, it's the >>> >> >>>> >>>>> >> only fellow we see. In Bruno's case right now we see 2 >>> >> >>>> >>>>> >> people clear as a >>> >> >>>> >>>>> >> bell and both are called "you" and both saw different >>> >> >>>> >>>>> >> things, and that makes >>> >> >>>> >>>>> >> meaningless the question asked yesterday "what is the >>> >> >>>> >>>>> >> probability "you" will >>> >> >>>> >>>>> >> see X?". [...] The diary is useless because the diary >>> >> >>>> >>>>> >> was >>> >> >>>> >>>>> >> written by "you" >>> >> >>>> >>>>> >> and contains predictions about the further adventures of >>> >> >>>> >>>>> >> "you", but now >>> >> >>>> >>>>> >> there are 2 (or more) people with the title "you" and no >>> >> >>>> >>>>> >> way >>> >> >>>> >>>>> >> to determine >>> >> >>>> >>>>> >> which one the diary was referring to. And the diary is >>> >> >>>> >>>>> >> useless because good >>> >> >>>> >>>>> >> predictions have no more to do with identity or a sense >>> >> >>>> >>>>> >> of >>> >> >>>> >>>>> >> self than bad >>> >> >>>> >>>>> >> predictions. >>> >> >>>> >>>> >>> >> >>>> >>>> >>> >> >>>> >>>> > So are you at last ready to reject MWI...? if you don't, >>> >> >>>> >>>> > you >>> >> >>>> >>>> > are >>> >> >>>> >>>> > not consistent >>> >> >>>> >>> >>> >> >>>> >>> >>> >> >>>> >>> The following is a flow diagram of the conversation we've >>> >> >>>> >>> been >>> >> >>>> >>> having on this thread: >>> >> >>>> >>> >>> >> >>>> >> >>> >> >>>> >> No you got it wrong, see previous message for the real >>> >> >>>> >> steps... >>> >> >>>> >> >>> >> >>>> >> Anyway, if 've waited too much to put you in the boitakon, >>> >> >>>> >> meet >>> >> >>>> >> roger >>> >> >>>> >> and stephen li... you'll never acknowledge you're wrong, >>> >> >>>> >> because >>> >> >>>> >> you're just >>> >> >>>> >> a troll. >>> >> >>>> >> >>> >> >>>> >> Quentin >>> >> >>>> >>> >> >>>> >> >>> >> >>>> >>> >>> >> >>>> >>> Step 1: Quentin Anciaux states that John Clark treats >>> >> >>>> >>> Everett's >>> >> >>>> >>> ideas and Bruno's ideas inconsistently. >>> >> >>>> >>> >>> >> >>>> >>> Step 2: John Clark points out the ways Everett's ideas about >>> >> >>>> >>> probability and prediction and Bruno's ideas about the nature >>> >> >>>> >>> of >>> >> >>>> >>> self are >>> >> >>>> >>> fundamentally different. >>> >> >>>> >>> >>> >> >>>> >>> Step 3: Quentin Anciaux neither agrees nor disagrees with >>> >> >>>> >>> John >>> >> >>>> >>> Clark's points. >>> >> >>>> >>> >>> >> >>>> >>> Step 4: Quentin Anciaux inserts one or more personal insults >>> >> >>>> >>> directed at John Clark. >>> >> >>>> >>> >>> >> >>>> >>> Step 5: GOTO step 1. >>> >> >>>> >>> >>> >> >>>> >>> John k Clark >>> >> >>>> >>> >>> >> >>>> >>> >>> >> >>>> >>> >>> >> >>>> >>> >>> >> >>>> >>> -- >>> >> >>>> >>> You received this message because you are subscribed 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