From: everything-list@googlegroups.com
[mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of meekerdb
Sent: Thursday, November 07, 2013 2:12 PM
To: everything-list@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Our Demon-Haunted World
On 11/6/2013 6:42 PM, Chris de Morsella wrote:
Either all humans enjoy human rights or none do.
>> Human rights are a human invention.
Yes. and so what. Either we all enjoy human rights or none of us do. Either
we all have free speech or none of us really do - if it can be taken away.
As soon as a class of persons is created that are stripped of their basic
human rights society is on a slippery slope down into the dark hell of
totalitarianism.
Are you repeating the common political rhetoric that refers to people who
have been convicted of a crime as "criminals" as though that defined a
class, like "women" or "laborer"? I think that is a pernicious view point;
one which is used to justify an "us vs. them" mentality and "the war on
crime". There is no "criminal class", there are just people who have
committed crimes. I commit a crime every day: exceeding the speed limit,
and so do 90% of the other people on the freeway.
Laws are passed with the idea and understanding that they will only be
selectively enforced. This is why it is disturbing to see the proliferation
of high-tech law enforcement: drones, GPS tracking, eavesdropping, cameras.
People realize that there are so many laws and so many poorly crafted laws
that if every violation of every law was caught and prosecuted we'd all end
up in jail.
And this is not due to some evil politicians plot. The same people who
routinely drive 80mph on the freeway, *want* the speed limit set to 65 or
70, because those *other people* are driving too fast. The same people who
smoke cigarettes want marijuana to be illegal. If you've ever been on a
jury you know that most people are quick to condemn any deviation from what
they consider the norm. Being liberal and tolerant doesn't come naturally.
Sure, but you are mixing apples with oranges. When someone is classified as
a felon, even after one has served their time, in many states you are
stripped of the right to have a voice in shaping society - i.e. to vote -
often for life. When - some secret court, interpreting secret laws define
someone - again in secret -- as a "terrorist" and then it becomes okay to
murder that person of torture that person we have created a class of persons
with no rights whatsoever - these "bad guys" to use the dumbed down
Manichean vernacular that the propagandists who feed our managed free press
have deeply implanted in the American collective psyche. Good guys / bad
guys - is everywhere, and has been driven deep into the psychology of your
average American - who now - and most Americans as far as I can tell really
do now see the world in terms of good guys and bad guys. And far too many
Americans are comfortable with torturing and killing "bad guys", with no due
process.
These persons - in the well trained American psyche have become sub-humans
to whom it is not only okay, but even expected to treat in the most horrible
ways. Conversely, in this way of thinking -- a good guy - can do no wrong,
because by definition they are the good guys.. So whatever they do it must
be good. or so the programming goes.
This brings up the paradox of crime & punishment. Whenever a person is
punished by society in some way and their rights are restricted this creates
a risk. Now obviously some people need to be imprisoned - not nearly as many
as are in fact imprisoned, but some people are violent anti-social and
commit harm on others.
>>Suppose they're not anti-social and not violent. They just defrauded a
few million investors out of their retirement savings. Should we just let
them walk free...Oh, right, we do.
LOL.. Yes we sure do don't we. Our society is corrupt at the very top.
But once someone has paid their price and done their time if they are then -
as they are in this country - permanently stripped of their civic rights
(felons cannot vote - or own guns as well -- in most states in the USA) it
gets into the area of creating a sub-human class of persons.
>>In the states I know about, a felon can petition to have their voting
rights reinstated.
You are correct. In some states felons can regain their citizenship, but in
many they cannot - at least that is my understanding.
Chris
Brent
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