On 11/7/2013 8:46 PM, Chris de Morsella wrote:
*From:*everything-list@googlegroups.com [mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com] *On
Behalf Of *meekerdb
*Sent:* Thursday, November 07, 2013 7:34 PM
*To:* everything-list@googlegroups.com
*Subject:* Re: Our Demon-Haunted World
On 11/7/2013 5:47 PM, Chris de Morsella wrote:
*From:*everything-list@googlegroups.com
<mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com>
[mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com] *On Behalf Of *meekerdb
*Sent:* Thursday, November 07, 2013 2:12 PM
*To:* everything-list@googlegroups.com
<mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com>
*Subject:* Re: Our Demon-Haunted World
On 11/6/2013 6:42 PM, Chris de Morsella wrote:
Either all humans enjoy human rights or none do.
>>Human rights are a human invention.
Yes... and so what.
So they're not the same in every society or at all times. So your all-or-nothing
assertion is false.
Okay, now I understand you. Yes, of course it is a fluid contextual concept. The idea of
natural human rights is relatively modern with an origin I would guess in the ferment
before the French Revolution "Liberté, égalité, fraternité" and specifically the
Declaration of the Rights of Man and of the Citizen (1789) with passage quoted from
Wikipedia
The Greeks had the idea of political rights - but mainly just for adult male citizens.
The Magna Carta created the right to trial by a jury of your peers. Locke and Bentham
wrote earlier and the U.S. revolution preceded the French revolution.
For liberté : "Liberty consists of being able to do anything that does not harm others:
thus, the exercise of the natural rights of every man or woman has no bounds other than
those that guarantee other members of society the enjoyment of these same rights."
For égalité: "The law "must be the same for all, whether it protects or punishes. All
citizens, being equal in its eyes, shall be equally eligible to all high offices, public
positions and employments, according to their ability, and without other distinction
than that of their virtues and talents."
The Law, in its majestic equality, forbids the rich, as well as
the poor, to sleep under the bridges, to beg in the streets, and
to steal bread.
-- Anatole France
fraternité: Sits off by itself a little. Our modern word solidarity perhaps expresses
some of it. We all have a moral obligation to each other; we -- speaking for myself and
how I try to live, not always successfully J-- all are each other's brothers and sisters
and as well we have moral bonds with this planet that is our life home. Fraternité is
the antithesis of greed.
While not exclusively French -- the ferment was happening in several places -- this
concept and ideal for me marks the beginning of the modern era... with all of its peaks
achieved by genius, creative reason and the mysterious something upon which inspiration
flows and deep dark totalitarian episodes as well.. and the insane burning through the
planets resource treasure troves in a hundred years.... Go, go, go!
Either we all enjoy human rights or none of us do.
So if Florida repeals it's law giving the right to "stand your ground", we will all be
living in a tyranny?
Either we all have free speech or none of us really do -- if it can be taken
away.
?? Of course it can be taken away - unless you subscribe to some mystic or supernatural
view of rights.
Brent
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