How exactly then is the heat exchanged. Heat exchangers work by exposing a large surface area in which to transfer heat from the source into the working fluid or conversely from the working fluid into the heat sink if heat is being pumped in the opposite direction.
If you do not accomplish creating this vast surface area - which is required in order to exchange heat - by fracking and filling the engineered fissures with water that picks up heat and becomes steam. How do you do it? You cannot just drill a well down into some hot rock then circulate water through it and expect to pick up very much heat at all. Without fracking the only way that this could be accomplished would be to physically drill a very large network of capillary wells in order to engineer the required surface area needed in order to have an effective heat exchanger. All the dry hot rock geothermal I have ever heard about uses fracking in order to engineer this volume of micro-fissures within a region of hot rock to turn that into a heat exchanger. Without all these micro-fissures there is no way to effectively transfer large amounts of heat into the working fluid. Drilling the thousands of miles of capillary heat exchange pipes - it sounds like you are envisioning - would present an exorbitant cost. If this is not what you are proposing then how do you propose the heat - on a massive scale - will be transferred into the distilled water? Chris From: everything-list@googlegroups.com [mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of John Mikes Sent: Sunday, November 17, 2013 12:15 PM To: everything-list@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: Our Demon-Haunted World Chris: you said it. I did not refer to "hydraulic fracturing' or "injecting (anything) INTO THE ROCK". I am talking about EXTRACTING H E A T only, in a CLOSED system. The carrying water must not touch the surrounding 'reservoir', must stay inside the well-system, in which it heats up for ascending to the surface. There is NO 'second well, the process goes in ONE. In and out. Your last par explains exactly the difference. Accordingly the ascending steam is NOT corrosive, the reason for using highly de-ionized (ultra-pure) water to inject into the hot zone INSIDE THE DEVICE. On Sat, Nov 16, 2013 at 6:16 PM, Chris de Morsella <cdemorse...@yahoo.com> wrote: John - The term reservoir has a well understood usage, when speaking about hydraulic fracturing, to describe the engineered rock volume that is filled by micro-fissures, created by injecting water under immense pressure into the rock, at the well head. The injected slurry contains poppants. Poppants are either sand or engineered small ceramic beads. It is this gritty material that maintains the micro-fissures and allows for the creation of a three dimensional volume - i.e. the reservoir - in which water can be injected and absorb heat from the rock volume that has been exposed - a much vaster surface area - by the hydraulic fracking. I am using the term reservoir very correctly - in the terms that it is used when speaking of hydraulic fracturing. Eventually the engineered rock volume that has been created by this process of fracking begins to reseal (the overburden is immense and squeezes the micro-fissures shut over time). In addition the engineered reservoir - in the specific sense that this term is used when speaking about hydraulic fracturing - will over time become depleted as heat is removed from it. Eventually that volume of rock will get hot again, but by the time it does the engineered micro-fissures will have been squeezed shut and the reservoir will have to be re-fracked. Water is injected into this reservoir, where it is turned into hot high pressure steam that comes up the second well. This steam is far too corrosive laden with minerals to use directly and must instead be used to boil the actual water, whose high pressure steam will transfer energy into the spinning turbine. If you used the steam from the well head you would be replacing turbines every year or two. Chris From: everything-list@googlegroups.com [mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of John Mikes Sent: Saturday, November 16, 2013 2:49 PM To: everything-list@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: Our Demon-Haunted World Chris: if you utter "reservoir" - you are on the wrong track. Nothing must "COME OUT" from the depth. Not even what YOU pumped in into open plenum. (My objection against the NZ plant). In Hungary in the 1950s a 'hot spring well' was tried to bring out 'heat' by its own pressure. By the time it reached the surface cooling a bit (and expanded(!) from the pressure) the M U D solidified into a hot mass. There was no private enterprise in commi Hungary at that time, so the idea was scrapped. John M On Sat, Nov 16, 2013 at 3:51 PM, Chris de Morsella <cdemorse...@yahoo.com> wrote: From: everything-list@googlegroups.com [mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of John Mikes Sent: Saturday, November 16, 2013 12:33 PM To: everything-list@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: Our Demon-Haunted World Telmo: unfortunately I reflected to the NZ solution on another list... - it is a convoluted - I could say: inadeqyate - technology, just as the Au version of the surface utilization. SOME PARTS OF THE WORLD??? let us say: the surface? Solar woulrd cover immense surfaces just for supplying the energy as needed TODAY and we will need a multiple of that soon... See my remark to Russell. So far NOBODY was interested in my suggestions: ewverybody blows his OWN pipe. Geotherm is under our feet - dry lamd or oceans. Pipes are stuck down for OIL, similar - if a bit longer for geothermic energy extraction with 2 pipes inserted: ONE for pumping DOWN the ultrapure (Si-free) water into a heat-exchanger at ~140+C environment, the OTHER to ascend the high pressure steam straight into the turbine. No deposit, as in NZ. JOhn Mikes If it were that easy.. Dry rock geothermal requires amongst other things large amounts of fresh water for hydraulic fracturing of the reservoir. This process needs to be repeated periodically as the reservoirs reseal up over a period of years (as is being experienced by the shale oil fracked wells) and in the case of dry rock geothermal when the heat reservoir becomes drawn down. The hot steam that comes out of the wells is too laden with minerals and salts to be used directly and it thus requires a duel loop system in which the primary loop boils water in a boiler to produce clean steam that is passed through the generators. Then there is the matter of earthquakes - including the I believe it was a 5.3 on the Richter scale tremors linked to it in Basel. Dry rock geothermal certainly does have a big upside potential - there is a whole lot of heat just a few miles below the ground, but it is not as easy or simple as you seem to think it is. For example in a lot of dry areas water supply becomes a gating factor that puts a limit on scalability - this also applies to Canadian tar sands and shale gas plays - water requirements will place a limit on how much it can scale; on the maximum annual rates of extraction that can be achieved. Chris On Thu, Nov 14, 2013 at 6:39 PM, LizR <lizj...@gmail.com> wrote: On 15 November 2013 11:39, John Mikes <jami...@gmail.com> wrote: Telmo and other 'experts': why does nobody even mention the geothermic energy app - available in huge Q-s and so far tapped only in (literalily) 'superficial' usage. The high pressure ultra-clean steam from a deepened modification of the exhausted oil wells may provide much much more energy than today's needs, so it could serve as driving force for more than we think by ongoing technology. (E.g. potable water, agri-irrigation, when fresh-water becomes scarce - like now - pollution-free transportation, keeping politicians in asylum, etc.) . I assume you mean geothermal energy. It is used in New Zealand but doesn't provide as much energy as wind and hydro as far as I know. It's an option in some parts of the world, certainly, but I would say solar is more readily available overall. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com <mailto:everything-list%2bunsubscr...@googlegroups.com> . To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. 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