Yes not to speak so ignorantly, but what particle caries heat, in the same sense that photons carry e-m, the boson, radioactivity, the proton, essentially the strong force, and the graviton-gravity aka mass. Is there a Heat on, the wiggle of the neutron, using lots of photons to carry heat?
-----Original Message----- From: Alberto G. Corona <agocor...@gmail.com> To: everything-list <everything-list@googlegroups.com> Sent: Wed, Dec 4, 2013 6:38 am Subject: Re: Question for Bruno Regarding the question of whether information is physical. Yes there is no loss of information at the lowest level, that is at the quantum level . But at the lowest level, there is NO notion of HEAT. only speeds and momentums of elementary particles. HEAT and temperature and entropy are statistical parameters, words used in the macroscopical laws to define sum of energies and mean energies or disorder of particles because the energy of each particle is not know at the human scale but each particle carry all the information intact. THe post is talking about the loss of information contained in a macrostate consisting of a phisical bit of information stored in a macroscopical object. For example a gate. The conservation of information on the laws of physics refers to the information of the microstates. not macrostates, whose information can be lost. and loss of information in a macrostate generate increase of entropy by the following reason: in terms of state, an increase of entropy is produced when we pass from a macrostate with less possible microstates to other with more possible microstates. At the beginning we have one macrostate , for example 1 formed by all the possible configurations of electrons in a gate when it stores a 1. when erased, we have a macrostate that may be one of the possible configurations of electrons that may be in a gate with a 1 OR a 0 or a neutral state. So the entropy has increased because the new macrostate (erased) has more microstates than the original. the disorder has increased. How that entropy increase is produced in the erase depend on the process. It may be by means of a short circuit in the gate. The electrons circulate and hit the atoms producing heat. the potential electric energy of attraction produces cynetic energy in the atoms and heat. The microstate-macrostate transition is the same case that happens when we have a gas of different types confined in a room and other room empty. When we communicate the rooms, the gas expand and fill both rooms, the entropy increased because the final macrostate admits more possible configurations speeds and positions of particles in the two rooms . Something similar, not equal, happens with gas of electrons in a gate. Measured in termodinamical terms, the temperature decreased and the entropy measured in termodinamical terms delta Q/T has increased. Q is the thermal energy or heat. However the process is different. in the first case, potential energy is dissipated and there is increase of Q, in the other the potential energy is dissipated against the vacuum and produces reduction of T. Q/T seems to be proportional to the number of microstates in a macrostate. The availability of information in the form of macrostates when entropy is low is what permits living beings to compute in order to anticipate the future and survive. That can only happen in the direction of entropy increase. I wrote something all of this here: http://www.slideshare.net/agcorona1/arrow-of-time-determined-by-lthe-easier-direction-of-computation-for-life I 2013/12/4 meekerdb <meeke...@verizon.net> On 12/3/2013 6:17 PM, freqflyer07281972 wrote: Hey everyone, Here is a question for Bruno (and anyone else who wants to chime in) -- I came across this post over at Sean Carroll's Preposterous Universe blog, wherein he seems to be claiming that the relationship between information, entropy, and physical processes is pretty well in the bag, i.e. it is well understood by physicists and it seems that the concept of information can be cashed out entirely in terms of physical processes. But if the processes are reversible (and they can be) then there is no entropy increase and no heat. Feynman already outlined how this would have to be done in quantum computers. I think the problems are far from solved. Black holes, in the semi-classical approximation seem to destroy information and there are various proposals for preserving the unitary evolution of quantum mechanics, but none that are completely satisfactory. Brent What does this do to your thought experiment and your Platonic orientation towards questions of information theory? How would you go about explaining the deep relationship between entropy, information, and the physical evolution of the universe? Cheers, Dan -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- Alberto. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. 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