On Sun, Jan 12, 2014 at 5:21 AM, Stathis Papaioannou <stath...@gmail.com> wrote: > On 12 January 2014 15:12, Colin Geoffrey Hales <cgha...@unimelb.edu.au> wrote: >> RE: arXiv: 1401.1219v1 [quant-ph] 6 Jan 2014 >> >> Consciousness as a State of Matter >> >> Max Tegmark, January 8, 2014 >> >> >> >> Hi Folk, >> >> Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr! >> >> I confess that after 12 years of deep immersion in science’s grapplings with >> consciousness, the blindspot I see operating is so obvious and so pervasive >> and so incredibly unseen it beggars belief. I know it’s a long way from >> physics to neuroscience (discipline-wise). But surely in 2014 we can see it >> for what it is. Can’t they (Tegmark and ilk) see that the so-called >> “science of consciousness” is >> >> · the “the science of the scientific observer” >> >> · trying to explain observing with observations >> >> · trying to explain experience with experiences >> >> · trying to explain how scientists do science. >> >> · a science of scientific behaviour. >> >> · Descriptive and never explanatory. >> >> · Assuming that the use of consciousness to confirm ‘laws of nature’ >> contacts the actual underlying reality... >> >> · Assuming there’s only 1 scientific behaviour and never ever ever >> questioning that. >> >> · Assuming scientists are not scientific evidence of anything. >> >> · Assuming that objectivity, in objectifying something out of >> subjectivity, doesn’t evidence the subjectivity at the heart of it. >> >> · Confusing scientific evidence as being an identity with >> objectified phenomena. >> >> >> >> 2500 years of blinkered paradigmatic tacit presupposition....now gives us >> exactly what happened for phlogiston during the 1600s. A new ‘state of >> matter’? Bah! Phlogiston!!! Of course not! All we have to do is admit we >> are actually inside the universe, made of whatever it is made of, getting a >> view from the point of view of being a bit of it...... grrrrrrrr. The big >> mistake is that thinking that physics has ever, in the history of science, >> ever ever ever dealt with what the universe is actually made of, as opposed >> to merely describing what a presupposed observer ‘sees it looking like’. The >> next biggest mistake is assuming that we can’t deal with what the universe >> is actually made of, when that very stuff is delivering an ability to >> scientifically observe in the first place. >> >> >> >> These sorts of expositions have failed before the authors have even lifted a >> finger over the keyboard. Those involved don’t even know what the problem >> is. The problem is not one _for_ science. The problem is _science itself_ >> ... _us_. >> >> >> >> Sorry. I just get very very frustrated at times. I have written a book on >> this and hopefully it’ll be out within 6 months. That’ll sort them out. >> >> >> >> Happy new year! > > I'm a lump of dumb matter arranged in a special way and I am > conscious, so I don't see why another lump of dumb matter arranged in > a special way might not also be conscious. What is it about that idea > that you see as not only wrong, but ridiculous?
I'm sorry I repeat this answer so many times, but this claim is also made so many times. The main problem I see with this idea is that no progress has been made so far in explaining how a lump of matter becomes conscious, as opposed to just being a zombie mechanically performing complex behaviors. Insisting that such an explanation must exist instead of entertaining other models of reality strikes me as a form of mysticism. Telmo. > > -- > Stathis Papaioannou > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
