On 1/28/2014 4:20 AM, Edgar L. Owen wrote:
Liz,No, those are entirely different effects. You need to understand the difference.My proposed black hole effect is not as you suggested but due to the uneven Hubble expansion of space around galaxies.The effect Brent is proposing has nothing to do with the Hubble expansion. It seems to be as if moving masses left their gravitational field behind them as they entered BHs. There is no known case in which moving masses leave their gravitational fields behind them. That seems to me to contradict GR.Brent is trying to tell us that black holes have NO mass (but they still causes gravitational effects), which I don't think anyone other than he believes.
All you would have had to do is look at the Wikipedia: ============================= Deriving the Schwarzschild solutionThe Schwarzschild solution <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schwarzschild_solution> is one of the simplest and most useful solutions of the Einstein field equations <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Einstein_field_equations> (see general relativity <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_relativity>). It describes spacetime <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spacetime> in the vicinity of a non-rotating massive spherically-symmetric object. It is worthwhile deriving this metric in some detail; the following is a reasonably rigorous derivation that is not always seen in the textbooks.
Working in a coordinate chart <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coordinate_chart> with coordinates \left(r, \theta, \phi, t \right) labelled 1 to 4 respectively, we begin with the metric in its most general form (10 independent components, each of which is a smooth function of 4 variables). The solution is assumed to be spherically symmetric, static and vacuum. For the purposes of this article, these assumptions may be stated as follows (see the relevant links for precise definitions):
(1) A spherically symmetric spacetime <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spherically_symmetric_spacetime> is one in which all metric components are unchanged under any rotation-reversal \theta \rightarrow - \theta or \phi \rightarrow - \phi.
(2) A static spacetime <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Static_spacetime> is one in which all metric components are independent of the time coordinate t (so that \frac {\part g_{\mu \nu}}{\part t}=0) and the geometry of the spacetime is unchanged under a time-reversal t \rightarrow -t.
(3) A /*vacuum solution <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Einstein_field_equation>*/ is one that satisfies the equation T_{ab}=0. From the Einstein field equations <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Einstein_field_equations> (with zero cosmological constant <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cosmological_constant>), this implies that R_{ab}=0 (after contracting R_{ab}-\frac{R}{2} g_{ab}=0 and putting R = 0).
(4) Metric signature <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metric_signature> used here is (-,+,+,+). =================================== But apparently learning something is not on your agenda. Brent
Mass is one of the few things BHs DO have.... Edgar On Monday, January 27, 2014 10:25:20 PM UTC-5, Liz R wrote: On 1/27/2014 4:03 PM, Edgar L. Owen wrote:I asked How does mass inside a BH produce an gravitational effect outside the event horizon if gravity propagates at the speed of light and nothing can go faster than the speed of light to come out of a black hole? Your answer was that when mass enters a black hole the mass disappears completely into the singularity and has NO gravitational effect outside and that the gravitational effect of a BH is somehow left over space warping from the passage of the mass before it enters the BH which seems like a pretty crazy idea. *Passing mass doesn't leave trails of its space warping behind in any other circumstances.*I seem to recall that you had the idea that the mass of a galaxy would leave behind a space warp even when the galaxy responsible had gone somewhere else. Once the warp is formed it can easily separate from the matter that caused it. At that point it is effectively just another mass of matter. That is why it's called dark matter. And of course masses separate from each other all the time. Don't think of it like it's continued existence depends on the original galactic mass. Once it's created it exists as a separate dark mass that can go anywhere it likes under gravitational forces just like VISIBLE matter can... --You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
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