On 25 Mar 2014, at 04:57, LizR wrote:
On 25 March 2014 16:40, meekerdb <meeke...@verizon.net> wrote:
On 3/24/2014 8:24 PM, LizR wrote:
"But Tegmark goes further. He doesn't say that the universe is
"isomorphic" to a mathematical structure; he says that it is that
structure, that its physical and mathematical existence are the
same thing."
I can see the appeal. If the universe ever does prove to be
isomorphic to a mathematical structure (and I'm sure that's a long,
long, long way from being proved at present) - by which I mean, if
the universe is exactly described by said structure, with nothing
else needed to completely describe reality - at that point, at
least, I would take Max's MUH seriously, if only because Ockham's
razor would indicate there was no point in hypothesising the
existence of two things that are exactly isomosphic.
I think you're missing Scott's point. The universe is obviously
isomorphic to a mathematical structure, in fact infinitely many
different mathematical structures, all of which are in Borges
Library of Babel. Almost all of them are just lists of what
happens. Scott's point is that this is not very interesting,
important, or impressive. It's only some small elegant compression
of those lists that's interesting - if it exists. Scott seems to
think that it does. I think it does *only* because we're willing to
call a lot of stuff "geography" as Bruno puts it, aka boundary
conditions, symmetry breaking, randomness...
Yes, if that's his point I am missing it, because although that may
be true it isn't addressing what the MUH claims (at least making the
rather large assumption that I've understood it correctly).
The MUH as I (perhaps mis-) understand it appears to assume there is
some minimal mathematical representation of the universe (known as
the laws of physics or TOE or whatver), and that this exists in a
manner that allows us to differentiate it from geography - as it
seems to, at least for the physical constants that don't appear to
vary with time or space, etc. So one has at least got what may be
called local laws of physics and local geography as a starting point.
If the laws of physics are (somehow - via fire breathing or
whatever) able to generate all possible resulting universes, then we
have an explanation for all the "geography" (modulo our particular
position in the string landscape etc), but presumably (as per
Russell's "Theory of Nothing") it all cancels out, assuming that all
possibilities are realised.
However we are a long way from that point, and I imagine the nature
of knowledge and measurement and so on mean that we can never
actually reach it with 100% certainty.
We can't reach it because reaching it via infinite lists of what
happens isn't worth the trip.
Sure, but the MUH assumes there is a unique set of laws of physics,
and the infinite lists all cancel out. (I think one should attempt
to criticise a theory in terms of what it actually says rather than
some other characterisation, surely?)
Comp says that the physical is a sort of sum on the whole list. We
don't have to do the trip, we already have.
As for going near public certainty, with comp, that makes you going
near the asylum.
Bruno
Brent
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