https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Swines/conversations/messages/14959
Anyone who reads the Qur'an in translation, if he has half an eye for style, can very easily divide the suras into three groups; 1/ those proclaimed in Mecca, 2/ those proclaimed in Medina during a state of war and full of hellfire and brimstone, and 3/ penned after Mohammed became the tyrant of all Arabia and peace prevailed for a very short time. The Meccan suras are gentle and good, such that any Christian or Jew could find them quite acceptable, noting that much of this material was obviously transcribed from the Old and New testaments. The Medinan suras were penned in the fog of war, and were violent and cruel in the extreme. Lastly, the third part is mostly legalese as the Sharia is developed by the tyrant warlord, whose very words were regarded as sacred, but in which there are multiple and rather confusing rules relating to sex and marriage that indirectly reflected his own private sexual kinks and quirks. It is this section that Muslims claim as their right to subjugate women. Mohammed was at the very least a devoted misogynist, but one who nonetheless delighted in using women for sex. According to the hadiths he was a randy beast who could do anything that took his fancy, such as cross dressing, and of course his most heinous crime, the penetration of a nine year old child. The story I've been told, so I can't vouch for its truth, is that the Followers kept the Prophet's utterances in a large chest that was carried around wherever they went. The contents were the results of scribing onto any surface available, whenever the Prophet was seen as speaking for Allah. These could be pottery shards, even stones, if parchment or papyrus was not available. These all went into the chest, so all chronology was lost. And it resulted in the earliest compilations varying widely, so one of the Caliphs, [Omar or Othman I think] decided to regularise the Qur'an by assembling all the pieces into what he regarded as a suitable order (such as placing contradictory suras side by side).* but here comes the crunch; He ordered *all previous material** destroyed*, and his compilation became the one and only version - for all time. So, when a Muslim claims the Qur'an is changeless, he is referrring to this version, probably in complete ignorance of its origin, and quite unknowing that the original Qur'an has been lost forever and no longer exists! mac http://www.algemeiner.com/2014/04/09/islamic-jihad-and-the-doctrine-of-abrogation/ On Sat, Apr 19, 2014 at 11:15 PM, Samiya Illias <samiyaill...@gmail.com>wrote: > Chris, I was replying to Spudboy100 who refuses to consider the Quran > because of the 'jihadis' 'behavoir' . The point I was trying to make is > that some people, from all religious persuasions, do strange and at times > horrible things. We need to look past people and their behaviours, and > examine the religious texts to evaluate for ourselves what it is. We are > all responsible for our own beliefs and actions. We come to this world > alone, we will leave it alone. What religious label we are born in, which > religious label or not we choose, eventually we all must face death alone, > and whatever's beyond that. Wishing it away because some people are poor > ambassadors or poor communicators of the message, won't change things > according to our wishes. We humans have intelligence and a vast wondrous > world full of thoughts and ideas and science and signs... we must explore > everything we can for its own merit before discarding it. > On this Everything list, I see earnest seekers exploring almost > everything, but somehow they stop short of scripture, especially Quran. I > understand much of this has to do with a filtered view of history, > long-held prejudices, popular media, as well as the actions of people who > poorly understand or use the religion, etc. The thing is, to understand > everything, we must be willing to explore everything. > > To answer your question, you may find these versions of history different > from what you may know about Muslim conquests: > http://lostislamichistory.com/did-islam-spread-by-the-sword/ > http://lostislamichistory.com/?s=crusades > http://lostislamichistory.com/the-crusades-part-3-liberation/ > > Samiya > > > On Sat, Apr 19, 2014 at 11:44 PM, Chris de Morsella <cdemorse...@yahoo.com > > wrote: > >> Samiya – Has Islam never participated in perpetrating violence against >> others; in conquest? >> >> Islam is as guilty as the other Abrahamic faiths, as an agent of violence >> in human history. >> >> Chris >> >> >> >> *From:* everything-list@googlegroups.com [mailto: >> everything-list@googlegroups.com] *On Behalf Of *Samiya Illias >> *Sent:* Saturday, April 19, 2014 9:57 AM >> *To:* everything-list@googlegroups.com >> >> *Subject:* Re: cannabis, cancer and mechanism, and climate. >> >> >> >> People do many strange and horrid things in the name of religion or >> nation or some other pretext. Violence has been perpetrated by the >> Crusaders, by the Nazis, by the Buddhists in Bhutan, by the Hindus in the >> Kashmir, Babri Masjid, by the Jews in Palestine, the Soviets in >> Afghanistan, the US and Allies in Iraq, and the list goes on... >> >> One must look beyond the people and evaluate religions for their message. >> >> >> >> >> Samiya >> >> >> >> spudboy100 wrote: Well, I am more focused on human behavior, and what >> happens to humans in this world. If such a spiritual intoxication leads to >> an ecstatic, plunge into violence, a "holy" violence, then a reasoning >> person may pause, and ponder what is lost, what is gained, and what is the >> damage done? Rather than focus on the internal realm of self, I >> concentrate, for now, on behavior. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On Sat, Apr 19, 2014 at 9:26 PM, <spudboy...@aol.com> wrote: >> >> Well, I am more focused on human behavior, and what happens to humans in >> this world. If such a spiritual intoxication leads to an ecstatic, plunge >> into violence, a "holy" violence, then a reasoning person may pause, and >> ponder what is lost, what is gained, and what is the damage done? Rather >> than focus on the internal realm of self, I concentrate, for now, on >> behavior. >> >> There are many 'interesting' things to learn about Islam only if one is >> willing to look beyond the prejudices. >> >> The more one studies and contemplates on the Quran and the world, the >> more one falls in love with God. It is intoxicating, it's an amazing >> feeling! >> >> -----Original Message----- >> >> >> From: Samiya Illias <samiyaill...@gmail.com> >> To: everything-list <everything-list@googlegroups.com> >> >> Sent: Sat, Apr 19, 2014 11:10 am >> Subject: Re: cannabis, cancer and mechanism, and climate. >> >> There are many 'interesting' things to learn about Islam only if one is >> willing to look beyond the prejudices. >> >> The more one studies and contemplates on the Quran and the world, the >> more one falls in love with God. It is intoxicating, it's an amazing >> feeling! >> >> >> >> Samiya >> >> >> On 19-Apr-2014, at 6:12 pm, spudboy...@aol.com wrote: >> >> Interesting, however, religion itself can an intoxicant, with the promise >> of paradise with many, many, willing females, and wine is permitted, and >> eternal life, if one merely, throws caution to wind and becomes a shaheed. >> What are a few years in this valley of tears, compared to paradise? An >> intoxicant indeed for the faithful. >> >> In Islam, consumption of intoxicants are discouraged. The arabic word >> used for intoxicants, in the Quran, is al-khamr. The root alphabets of the >> word are kh-m-r which means to cover or hide something. Intoxicants, it >> implies, cover the intellect, and thus are discouraged >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Samiya Illias <samiyaill...@gmail.com> >> To: everything-list <everything-list@googlegroups.com> >> Sent: Sat, Apr 19, 2014 2:42 am >> Subject: Re: cannabis, cancer and mechanism, and climate. >> >> The harmful effects of the consumption of intoxicants for the individual >> and its consequent effects on society are observable. The bans are in thus >> in the larger interest. However, if cannabis and other drugs have some >> medicinal benefits, then the research should continue to find the correct, >> beneficial use of them, as well as the side-effects. >> >> >> >> In Islam, consumption of intoxicants are discouraged. The arabic word >> used for intoxicants, in the Quran, is al-khamr. The root alphabets of the >> word are kh-m-r which means to cover or hide something. Intoxicants, it >> implies, cover the intellect, and thus are discouraged. >> >> >> >> It is explained: [Quran 2:219] They ask you about intoxicants and games >> of chance. Say: In both of them there is a great sin and means of profit >> for men, and their sin is greater than their profit... >> >> >> >> The word used for sin also means frustration; tiredness; laziness. Thus, >> I gather, both mind and body eventually suffer from the harmful effects of >> the intoxicant, and thus the negatives far outweigh the benefits. >> >> >> >> Initially, the believers were advised to pray when in a clear state of >> mind, and not when under the influence of intoxicants: : [Quran 4:43] O you >> who believe! do not go near prayer when you are Intoxicated until you know >> (well) what you say,... >> >> >> >> Gradually, they were exhorted to refrain from it altogether: [Quran 5:90] >> O ye who believe! Intoxicants and gambling, (dedication of) stones, and >> (divination by) arrows, are an abomination,- of Satan's handwork: eschew >> such (abomination), that ye may prosper. >> >> >> >> References: >> >> [Quran 2:219] >> http://www.searchtruth.com/chapter_display_all.php?chapter=2&from_verse=218&to_verse=220&mac=&translation_setting=1&show_yusufali=1&show_shakir=1&show_pickthal=1&show_mkhan=1&show_urdu=1 >> >> >> >> >> [Quran 4:43] >> http://www.searchtruth.com/chapter_display_all.php?chapter=4&from_verse=42&to_verse=44&mac=&translation_setting=1&show_yusufali=1&show_shakir=1&show_pickthal=1&show_mkhan=1&show_urdu=1 >> >> >> >> >> [Quran 5:90] >> http://www.searchtruth.com/chapter_display_all.php?chapter=5&from_verse=89&to_verse=92&mac=&translation_setting=1&show_yusufali=1&show_shakir=1&show_pickthal=1&show_mkhan=1&show_urdu=1 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Samiya >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> On Sat, Apr 19, 2014 at 3:52 AM, meekerdb <meeke...@verizon.net> wrote: >> >> On 4/18/2014 7:13 AM, Telmo Menezes wrote: >> >> What society thinks has nothing to do with it, because weak >> correlation-based scientific evidence is used selectively to create laws >> that were desired a priori by some interest group. >> >> That implies some nefarious motive and corrupt use of data known to be >> wrong. In fact there was no nefarious 'interest group' that wanted to ban >> marijuana or to ban alcohol or to ban heroin. All these bans were >> initiated by people who believed in the ill effects of these substances for >> individuals and for society. In many cases they had personal experience. >> That the bans may have given rise to criminal activities to circumvent >> them, isn't to the point of their origin. >> >> Brent >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Everything List" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> >> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Everything List" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Everything List" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Everything List" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Everything List" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> >> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Everything List" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Everything List" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. 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