From: everything-list@googlegroups.com
[mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Bruno Marchal
Sent: Sunday, April 20, 2014 2:54 AM
To: everything-list@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: cannabis, cancer and mechanism, and climate.
On 20 Apr 2014, at 05:15, Samiya Illias wrote:
Chris, I was replying to Spudboy100 who refuses to consider the Quran
because of the 'jihadis' 'behavoir' . The point I was trying to make is that
some people, from all religious persuasions, do strange and at times
horrible things. We need to look past people and their behaviours, and
examine the religious texts to evaluate for ourselves what it is. We are all
responsible for our own beliefs and actions. We come to this world alone, we
will leave it alone. What religious label we are born in, which religious
label or not we choose, eventually we all must face death alone, and
whatever's beyond that. Wishing it away because some people are poor
ambassadors or poor communicators of the message, won't change things
according to our wishes. We humans have intelligence and a vast wondrous
world full of thoughts and ideas and science and signs... we must explore
everything we can for its own merit before discarding it.
On this Everything list, I see earnest seekers exploring almost everything,
but somehow they stop short of scripture, especially Quran. I understand
much of this has to do with a filtered view of history, long-held
prejudices, popular media, as well as the actions of people who poorly
understand or use the religion, etc. The thing is, to understand everything,
we must be willing to explore everything.
I read many "sacred" texts, including different translations of the Quran.
But I found some text more convincing, or more heart-vibrating than others.
I studied three years of classical chinese to be more at ease with the
taoist proses, notably.
For the Quran, some verses are formidable and can talk to my heart, but not
so for other verses, and muslim scholars were a bit contradictory on how to
interpret it.
>>But the main reason why we stop at scripture is only that they are
scripture. They are human very imperfect way to address the divine, and, by
my own faith, contradicts the deepest intuition I have on that matter, which
is that religion cannot be normative and allow "authorities" to think for
me, or intercede between me and the "good lord".
Precisely! This is my principal objection to all religions as well. No
authority is my bridge. the meaning of the Pope is in Italian "il Pontefice"
- e.g. "the One who is the bridge". the separation of the individual from
their own spiritual existence by means of this intercession of a central
gate keeper authority - i.e. the church (or equivalent) is at the root of
all religions, and especially of the Abrahamic monotheist brands.
Only the "i" that has the - perhaps one can say, self-emergent -- humility
to see (without imprisoning, what is seen, in pre-existing notional
constructs of the mind's world-model) can ever be the bridge to transcendent
self-awareness.
Chris
Some people seems to accept that "intercession", and I don't want to judge
them. May be it can make sense in some survival strategies, but it is no
more religion to me.
Bruno
To answer your question, you may find these versions of history different
from what you may know about Muslim conquests:
http://lostislamichistory.com/did-islam-spread-by-the-sword/
http://lostislamichistory.com/?s=crusades
http://lostislamichistory.com/the-crusades-part-3-liberation/
Samiya
On Sat, Apr 19, 2014 at 11:44 PM, Chris de Morsella <cdemorse...@yahoo.com>
wrote:
Samiya - Has Islam never participated in perpetrating violence against
others; in conquest?
Islam is as guilty as the other Abrahamic faiths, as an agent of violence in
human history.
Chris
From: everything-list@googlegroups.com
[mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Samiya Illias
Sent: Saturday, April 19, 2014 9:57 AM
To: everything-list@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: cannabis, cancer and mechanism, and climate.
People do many strange and horrid things in the name of religion or nation
or some other pretext. Violence has been perpetrated by the Crusaders, by
the Nazis, by the Buddhists in Bhutan, by the Hindus in the Kashmir, Babri
Masjid, by the Jews in Palestine, the Soviets in Afghanistan, the US and
Allies in Iraq, and the list goes on...
One must look beyond the people and evaluate religions for their message.
Samiya
spudboy100 wrote: Well, I am more focused on human behavior, and what
happens to humans in this world. If such a spiritual intoxication leads to
an ecstatic, plunge into violence, a "holy" violence, then a reasoning
person may pause, and ponder what is lost, what is gained, and what is the
damage done? Rather than focus on the internal realm of self, I concentrate,
for now, on behavior.
On Sat, Apr 19, 2014 at 9:26 PM, <spudboy...@aol.com> wrote:
Well, I am more focused on human behavior, and what happens to humans in
this world. If such a spiritual intoxication leads to an ecstatic, plunge
into violence, a "holy" violence, then a reasoning person may pause, and
ponder what is lost, what is gained, and what is the damage done? Rather
than focus on the internal realm of self, I concentrate, for now, on
behavior.
There are many 'interesting' things to learn about Islam only if one is
willing to look beyond the prejudices.
The more one studies and contemplates on the Quran and the world, the more
one falls in love with God. It is intoxicating, it's an amazing feeling!
-----Original Message-----
From: Samiya Illias <samiyaill...@gmail.com>
To: everything-list <everything-list@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Sat, Apr 19, 2014 11:10 am
Subject: Re: cannabis, cancer and mechanism, and climate.
There are many 'interesting' things to learn about Islam only if one is
willing to look beyond the prejudices.
The more one studies and contemplates on the Quran and the world, the more
one falls in love with God. It is intoxicating, it's an amazing feeling!
Samiya
On 19-Apr-2014, at 6:12 pm, spudboy...@aol.com wrote:
Interesting, however, religion itself can an intoxicant, with the promise of
paradise with many, many, willing females, and wine is permitted, and
eternal life, if one merely, throws caution to wind and becomes a shaheed.
What are a few years in this valley of tears, compared to paradise? An
intoxicant indeed for the faithful.
In Islam, consumption of intoxicants are discouraged. The arabic word used
for intoxicants, in the Quran, is al-khamr. The root alphabets of the word
are kh-m-r which means to cover or hide something. Intoxicants, it implies,
cover the intellect, and thus are discouraged
-----Original Message-----
From: Samiya Illias <samiyaill...@gmail.com>
To: everything-list <everything-list@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Sat, Apr 19, 2014 2:42 am
Subject: Re: cannabis, cancer and mechanism, and climate.
The harmful effects of the consumption of intoxicants for the individual and
its consequent effects on society are observable. The bans are in thus in
the larger interest. However, if cannabis and other drugs have some
medicinal benefits, then the research should continue to find the correct,
beneficial use of them, as well as the side-effects.
In Islam, consumption of intoxicants are discouraged. The arabic word used
for intoxicants, in the Quran, is al-khamr. The root alphabets of the word
are kh-m-r which means to cover or hide something. Intoxicants, it implies,
cover the intellect, and thus are discouraged.
It is explained: [Quran 2:219] They ask you about intoxicants and games of
chance. Say: In both of them there is a great sin and means of profit for
men, and their sin is greater than their profit...
The word used for sin also means frustration; tiredness; laziness. Thus, I
gather, both mind and body eventually suffer from the harmful effects of the
intoxicant, and thus the negatives far outweigh the benefits.
Initially, the believers were advised to pray when in a clear state of mind,
and not when under the influence of intoxicants: : [Quran 4:43] O you who
believe! do not go near prayer when you are Intoxicated until you know
(well) what you say,...
Gradually, they were exhorted to refrain from it altogether: [Quran 5:90] O
ye who believe! Intoxicants and gambling, (dedication of) stones, and
(divination by) arrows, are an abomination,- of Satan's handwork: eschew
such (abomination), that ye may prosper.
References:
[Quran 2:219] http://www.searchtruth.com/chapter_display_all.php?chapter=2
<http://www.searchtruth.com/chapter_display_all.php?chapter=2&from_verse=218
&to_verse=220&mac=&translation_setting=1&show_yusufali=1&show_shakir=1&show_
pickthal=1&show_mkhan=1&show_urdu=1>
&from_verse=218&to_verse=220&mac=&translation_setting=1&show_yusufali=1&show
_shakir=1&show_pickthal=1&show_mkhan=1&show_urdu=1
[Quran 4:43] http://www.searchtruth.com/chapter_display_all.php?chapter=4
<http://www.searchtruth.com/chapter_display_all.php?chapter=4&from_verse=42&;
to_verse=44&mac=&translation_setting=1&show_yusufali=1&show_shakir=1&show_pi
ckthal=1&show_mkhan=1&show_urdu=1>
&from_verse=42&to_verse=44&mac=&translation_setting=1&show_yusufali=1&show_s
hakir=1&show_pickthal=1&show_mkhan=1&show_urdu=1
[Quran 5:90] http://www.searchtruth.com/chapter_display_all.php?chapter=5
<http://www.searchtruth.com/chapter_display_all.php?chapter=5&from_verse=89&;
to_verse=92&mac=&translation_setting=1&show_yusufali=1&show_shakir=1&show_pi
ckthal=1&show_mkhan=1&show_urdu=1>
&from_verse=89&to_verse=92&mac=&translation_setting=1&show_yusufali=1&show_s
hakir=1&show_pickthal=1&show_mkhan=1&show_urdu=1
Samiya
On Sat, Apr 19, 2014 at 3:52 AM, meekerdb <meeke...@verizon.net> wrote:
On 4/18/2014 7:13 AM, Telmo Menezes wrote:
What society thinks has nothing to do with it, because weak
correlation-based scientific evidence is used selectively to create laws
that were desired a priori by some interest group.
That implies some nefarious motive and corrupt use of data known to be
wrong. In fact there was no nefarious 'interest group' that wanted to ban
marijuana or to ban alcohol or to ban heroin. All these bans were initiated
by people who believed in the ill effects of these substances for
individuals and for society. In many cases they had personal experience.
That the bans may have given rise to criminal activities to circumvent them,
isn't to the point of their origin.
Brent
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