Somebody wrote (Liz?): *For example there is no problem with capitalism per se, unless you allow money to vote. Lobbying can be permitted, but not through financial helps. If you allow this, you kill capitalism, and transform it into corporatism and monopolism, which kill the "genuine" competition and eventually the society.*
Who is that *"YOU"?? *Power and force are in the hands of the plutocrats. They do whatever they see fit. Money does not 'vote': people (stupid and 'for sale' voters do. Capitalism, BTW, as I wrote many times, died in the 1970s to give it over to some Economical Global Feudalism, (including corporatism and monopolism) - not less brutal than the Medieval Feudalism was, only with higher sophistication and pretension. The "lords" OWN things (including Nature) and the "serfs" work for money (for them) - sometimes for many many money, like bankers, lawyers, legislators, enforcers, scientists, etc. Serfs are disregardable chattel - fodder for wars, work-slaves, etc. I did try to live in pre- and real nazism, in a (mock) communism and in capiatlism, in all of them as an underdog (scientist), twice arrested - but survived. JM On Sun, May 4, 2014 at 4:48 PM, <ghib...@gmail.com> wrote: > > On Sunday, May 4, 2014 8:17:29 PM UTC+1, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >> >> On 04 May 2014, at 01:14, LizR wrote: >> >> On 4 May 2014 07:22, spudboy100 via Everything List < >> everyth...@googlegroups.com> wrote: >> >>> I shan't defend the behaviors of the Abe religions over the centuries, >>> but you couldn't term the Hindu faith as pacifist either. In the 20th >>> century the political movement that had atheism at its core, was the >>> Marxist ideology, and how many tens of millions did it destroy, 70 mil, >>> 100? Not a bad catchup I'd say. The "pagan" faiths, previous to, and >>> coexistent with the Abe religions were not pacifist either and were hungry >>> for land, slaves, and murder, just like the Abe's, and even worse. Pagan >>> Rome employed crucifixion, remember? The ancient Chinese, were plenty, >>> murderous, as well. In the Americas and Africa, as far as archaeologists >>> and physical anthropologists, have determined, and were, what I term as >>> being 'genocide friendly.' None of the species were really nice guys for >>> much of the time.. >> >> >> Yep, the religions known as Stalinism and Nazism were just as destructive >> as the Crusades, etc. In fact anything ending in "Ism" seems to be a >> justification for murder or cruelty. (It looks like Capitalism is catching >> up with the others, and may soon surpass all of them if we aren't careful.) >> >> >> Some "ism" can be good and nice, but even in that case, after a while, >> some people will use it and pervert it for special/personal interest. >> Always. Then criticizing the "ism" protects them, somehow >> > > you're absolutely right > >> . >> >> For example there is no problem with capitalism per se, unless you allow >> money to vote. Lobbying can be permitted, but not through financial helps. >> If you allow this, you kill capitalism, and transform it into corporatism >> and monopolism, which kill the "genuine" competition and eventually the >> society. >> > > On the money Bruno. Hey this might be were we finally touch heads man! > It's amazing the dogma and self-serving ideological bolt ons currently > crept already fully into the conception what a free market is. It's barely > recognizable as it stands at the moment. > > A large part of the reason this is possible to happen is because there's > no scientific theory of economy. . > > > >> The real war is between the good guy and the bad guy. There is no "ism" >> capable of guaranty the good, but allowing some "ism" to com fairly, allow >> them to evolve and this is harm reduction. Now, if some same "ism" lasts >> too long, it get rotten and as good as it could have been, it will be >> perverted by some special interest. >> > > I don't think so Bruno, and even if there was, there's no place for > morality in a theory of economy, not as primary operator...because all that > will ever get us, is philosophy-guru's into the market next, to tell us > about the morality...and among them will be even more bad guys, Which'd be > a magnet for yet more. > > There are bad guys in practice, but the scientific theory of economy...it > won't just be a theory on paper. The day for that is nearly over now. The > shape of things to come are theories that no longer embody human guesses > any more, but instead embody that which can be anticipated once > discovered...which will always be at the methodological level. And that > which must be discovered as part of an ongoing unfolding process. All which > will attach, to economy, technology, physical theory, mathematics, a > problem...whatever we want....attachment by translation from more > abstracted form, attachment by intersection, discovery as the product, > within in a feedback and other ways ever more complex organism. > > The theory of economy work its way through markets and industries and > nations and individuals and abstract theories...discovering principles and > strategies and corruption..discovering all the time, and correcting. The > 2nd Scientific Revolution.....that's what it will be. We might not get > there though....but if we could it be every dream cometh true. But > there's a limited window, and if we fail, it's hive and hell...the end of > us, but with time in the middle plenty to have a go at ....being animals > >> >> u >> But the problem here is not the "ism" itself. The problem is in the human >> addiction to money or power. >> > . > Yep, and all these excellent points, represent manifestations that put a > drag on maret dynamism....so in effect they are examples of the true > character of a 'regulation'. Not to say some we have now are not crucial > unlike what the faux free marketers say. They are crucial in a lot of cases > because they moderate even worse corruption. But any barrier to entry, or > disincentive, any kind of corruption.....are all directly related to > fundamental market properties, All of them..all properties. Corruption > creates wonders for the people on the inside, but across the market as a > whole, efficiciency has gone down as the inverse exponential. > > Not efficiency as it gets defined, because that's not fundamental. > Efficiency depends on everything else and the relations. Free Market > principles are much more flexible - yet less so for being simpler...than > misconceptions of our day > ...s > >> To compete fairly needs good separation of all powers, good renewing of >> powers, etc. >> >> Today there are powerful interest fighting against such separation, and >> the internet itself can be in peril. Don't hesitate to sign petitions >> against it. I put links on my facebook page (*). >> >> If we don't remain vigilant, we get the "ism" that we can tolerate until >> it is too late. >> >> Bruno >> >> (*) https://www.facebook.com/Bruno.Marchal24 >> >> http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ >> >> >> >> -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. 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