On 04 May 2014, at 23:34, John Mikes wrote:
Somebody wrote (Liz?):
It was me, answering to Liz.
For example there is no problem with capitalism per se, unless you
allow money to vote. Lobbying can be permitted, but not through
financial helps. If you allow this, you kill capitalism, and
transform it into corporatism and monopolism, which kill the
"genuine" competition and eventually the society.
Who is that "YOU"?? Power and force are in the hands of the
plutocrats. They do whatever they see fit. Money does not 'vote':
people (stupid and 'for sale' voters do.
Once you have financial help from lobbying, people will vote for those
who they heard about.
Capitalism, BTW, as I wrote many times, died in the 1970s to give it
over to some
Economical Global Feudalism, (including corporatism and monopolism) -
That's my point, except that the root of this comes from prohibition,
as defended *only* by bandits at the start (I tend to think). The
problem is black and grey money.
not less brutal than the Medieval Feudalism was, only with higher
sophistication and pretension. The "lords" OWN things (including
Nature) and the "serfs" work for money (for them) - sometimes for
many many money, like bankers, lawyers, legislators, enforcers,
scientists, etc. Serfs are disregardable chattel - fodder for wars,
work-slaves, etc.
OK.
I did try to live in pre- and real nazism, in a (mock) communism and
in capiatlism, in all of them as an underdog (scientist), twice
arrested - but survived.
Glad that you survive, John :)
Bruno
JM
On Sun, May 4, 2014 at 4:48 PM, <ghib...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Sunday, May 4, 2014 8:17:29 PM UTC+1, Bruno Marchal wrote:
On 04 May 2014, at 01:14, LizR wrote:
On 4 May 2014 07:22, spudboy100 via Everything List
<everyth...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
I shan't defend the behaviors of the Abe religions over the
centuries, but you couldn't term the Hindu faith as pacifist
either. In the 20th century the political movement that had atheism
at its core, was the Marxist ideology, and how many tens of
millions did it destroy, 70 mil, 100? Not a bad catchup I'd say.
The "pagan" faiths, previous to, and coexistent with the Abe
religions were not pacifist either and were hungry for land,
slaves, and murder, just like the Abe's, and even worse. Pagan Rome
employed crucifixion, remember? The ancient Chinese, were plenty,
murderous, as well. In the Americas and Africa, as far as
archaeologists and physical anthropologists, have determined, and
were, what I term as being 'genocide friendly.' None of the
species were really nice guys for much of the time..
Yep, the religions known as Stalinism and Nazism were just as
destructive as the Crusades, etc. In fact anything ending in "Ism"
seems to be a justification for murder or cruelty. (It looks like
Capitalism is catching up with the others, and may soon surpass all
of them if we aren't careful.)
Some "ism" can be good and nice, but even in that case, after a
while, some people will use it and pervert it for special/personal
interest. Always. Then criticizing the "ism" protects them, somehow
you're absolutely right
.
For example there is no problem with capitalism per se, unless you
allow money to vote. Lobbying can be permitted, but not through
financial helps. If you allow this, you kill capitalism, and
transform it into corporatism and monopolism, which kill the
"genuine" competition and eventually the society.
On the money Bruno. Hey this might be were we finally touch heads
man! It's amazing the dogma and self-serving ideological bolt ons
currently crept already fully into the conception what a free market
is. It's barely recognizable as it stands at the moment.
A large part of the reason this is possible to happen is because
there's no scientific theory of economy. .
The real war is between the good guy and the bad guy. There is no
"ism" capable of guaranty the good, but allowing some "ism" to com
fairly, allow them to evolve and this is harm reduction. Now, if
some same "ism" lasts too long, it get rotten and as good as it
could have been, it will be perverted by some special interest.
I don't think so Bruno, and even if there was, there's no place for
morality in a theory of economy, not as primary operator...because
all that will ever get us, is philosophy-guru's into the market
next, to tell us about the morality...and among them will be even
more bad guys, Which'd be a magnet for yet more.
There are bad guys in practice, but the scientific theory of
economy...it won't just be a theory on paper. The day for that is
nearly over now. The shape of things to come are theories that no
longer embody human guesses any more, but instead embody that which
can be anticipated once discovered...which will always be at the
methodological level. And that which must be discovered as part of
an ongoing unfolding process. All which will attach, to economy,
technology, physical theory, mathematics, a problem...whatever we
want....attachment by translation from more abstracted form,
attachment by intersection, discovery as the product, within in a
feedback and other ways ever more complex organism.
The theory of economy work its way through markets and industries
and nations and individuals and abstract theories...discovering
principles and strategies and corruption..discovering all the time,
and correcting. The 2nd Scientific Revolution.....that's what it
will be. We might not get there though....but if we could it be
every dream cometh true. But there's a limited window, and if we
fail, it's hive and hell...the end of us, but with time in the
middle plenty to have a go at ....being animals
u
But the problem here is not the "ism" itself. The problem is in the
human addiction to money or power.
.
Yep, and all these excellent points, represent manifestations that
put a drag on maret dynamism....so in effect they are examples of
the true character of a 'regulation'. Not to say some we have now
are not crucial unlike what the faux free marketers say. They are
crucial in a lot of cases because they moderate even worse
corruption. But any barrier to entry, or disincentive, any kind of
corruption.....are all directly related to fundamental market
properties, All of them..all properties. Corruption creates wonders
for the people on the inside, but across the market as a whole,
efficiciency has gone down as the inverse exponential.
Not efficiency as it gets defined, because that's not fundamental.
Efficiency depends on everything else and the relations. Free Market
principles are much more flexible - yet less so for being
simpler...than misconceptions of our day
...s
To compete fairly needs good separation of all powers, good renewing
of powers, etc.
Today there are powerful interest fighting against such separation,
and the internet itself can be in peril. Don't hesitate to sign
petitions against it. I put links on my facebook page (*).
If we don't remain vigilant, we get the "ism" that we can tolerate
until it is too late.
Bruno
(*) https://www.facebook.com/Bruno.Marchal24
http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/
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