The problem and delight of the Terminator, Skynet monster, originally a mix of US-Soviet AI's merging together (courtesy Harlan Ellison) is that they lads act on their own. My own fear is not mad program code, but the humans behind the coding. A reviving cold war 3, or 4, is far more concerning that Johnny 5 going berserk. It is not the logic or illogic of devices, but ourselves. -----Original Message----- From: Telmo Menezes <te...@telmomenezes.com> To: everything-list <everything-list@googlegroups.com> Sent: Tue, Aug 26, 2014 6:11 pm Subject: Re: AI Dooms Us
Hi Terren, On Tue, Aug 26, 2014 at 7:31 PM, Terren Suydam <terren.suy...@gmail.com> wrote: For what it's worth, the kind of autonomous human-level (or greater) type of AI, or AGI, will *most likely* require an architecture, yet to be well understood, that is of an entirely different nature relative to the kind of architectures being engineered by those interests who desire highly complicated slaves. The problem is that you need to define a utility function for these slaves. Even with currently known algorithms but more computational power, the machines might be able to take steps to maximize their utility function that are beyond our own intelligence. If we try to constrain the utility function in ways that would threaten our well-being, we can only impose such constraints up to the horizon of our own intelligence, but not further. So your cleaning system might end up figuring out a way to contaminate your house with enough radiation to keep humans from interfering with the cleaning operation for millennia. This is not a real threat because I can anticipate it, but what lies beyond the anticipatory powers of the most intelligent human alive? Telmo. In other words, I'm not losing any sleep about the military accidentally unleashing a terminator. If I'm going to lose sleep over a predictable sudden loss of well being, I will focus instead on the much less technical and much more realistic threats arising from economic/societal collapse. Terren On Tue, Aug 26, 2014 at 12:39 PM, 'Chris de Morsella' via Everything List <everything-list@googlegroups.com> wrote: We can engage and do so without overarching understanding of what we are doing and stuff will emerge out of our activities. AI will be (and is!) in my opinion emergent phenomena. We don’t really understand it, but we are accelerating its emergence never the less. Modern software systems with millions of lines of code are not fully understood by anybody anymore, people know about small specific regions of a system and some architects have a fuzzy and rather vague understanding of system dynamics as a whole, but mysterious stuff is already happening (ex. Google (or some researchers from Google) has recently reported that its photo recognition smart systems are acting in ways that the programmers don’t fully comprehend and that are not deterministic – i.e. explicable based on working through the code) If you look at where the money is in AI research and development, it is largely focused on military, security state, and other allied sectors, with perhaps an anomaly in the financial sector where big money is being thrown at smart arbitrage systems. We will get the kind of AI we pay for. -Chris From: everything-list@googlegroups.com [mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Platonist Guitar Cowboy Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2014 7:57 AM To: everything-list@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: AI Dooms Us If we engage a class of problems on which we can't reason, and throw tech at that, we'll catch the occasional fish, but we won't really know how or why. Some marine life is poisonous however, which might not be obvious in the catch. I prefer "keep it simple approaches to novelty": >From G. Kreisel's "Obituary of K. Gödel": Without losing sight of the permanent interest of his work, Gödel repeatedly stressed... how little novel mathematics was needed; only attention to some quite commonplace distinctions; in the case of his most famous work: between arithmetical truth on the one hand and derivability by formal rules on the other. Far from being uncomfortable about so to speak getting something from nothing, he saw his early successes as special cases of a fruitful general, but neglected scheme: By attention or, equivalently, analysis of suitable traditional notions and issues, adding possibly a touch of precision, one arrives painlessly at appropriate concepts, correct conjectures, and generally easy proofs- Kreisel, 1980. On Tue, Aug 26, 2014 at 12:37 AM, LizR <lizj...@gmail.com> wrote: "I'll be back!" On 26 August 2014 07:20, 'Chris de Morsella' via Everything List <everything-list@googlegroups.com> wrote: a super-intelligent machine devoted to the killing of "enemy" human beings (+ opposing drones I suppose as well) This does not bode well for a benign super-intelligence outcome does it? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. 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