On 17 Oct 2014, at 22:47, John Clark wrote:
On Fri, Oct 17, 2014 at 3:42 AM, LizR <lizj...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> to math make the Big Bang or did the Big Bang make the math? I
don't know and I'm not going to pretend that I do.
> I don't see how the big bang could make 2+2=4. Are you saying that
in another big bang, 2+2=5?
No, but I am saying that maybe we should take it seriously when
people say that mathematics is a language, a language that is
extremely well suited for describing certain things and for telling
certain kinds of stories. A language can tell the story of the first
3 minutes of the Big Bang, or the story of the construction of the
Hoover Dam, or the story of the construction of Hogwarts. One of
these 3 things is not like the others because we say it is not real,
by that we mean it is not in the physical universe; and the way we
have for determining which stories in any language tells are real is
by experiment. So if mathematics really is just a language, the most
logical one conceivable but a language nevertheless, then it's a
human invention and physics is more fundamental than mathematics and
the Big Bang didn't need mathematics or any other language but
mathematics needed the Big Bang.
Please note I'm not saying any of this is true, I'm just saying it
might be.
Which illustrates that comp can be false. You were disagreeing with
this, but here you show yourself a counter-example. For comp (the
classical version, using the classical (usual) form of Church thesis)
needs 2+2=4 independent of you.
But then all statements like the machine i has this behavior on input
j, and this internal thought, etc. are all independent of us, and our
subjective experience are realized infinitely often in the elementary
arithmetical reality. Then the Movie-Graph-Argument shows that you
cannot add primary matter to singularize (without magic) the conscious
experience, no more than in QM.
> If one is going to darw any conclusions, I'd say it's that
infprmation is more fundamental than we have previously assumed.
That at least we can agree on.
John K Clark
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