On Tue, Feb 3, 2015 at 7:59 PM, meekerdb <meeke...@verizon.net> wrote:
> On 2/3/2015 2:26 PM, Jason Resch wrote: > > > > On Tue, Feb 3, 2015 at 2:36 PM, Stathis Papaioannou <stath...@gmail.com> > wrote: > >> >> >> On Wednesday, February 4, 2015, Jason Resch <jasonre...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> I agree with John. If consciousness had no third-person observable >>> effects, it would be an epiphenomenon. And then there is no way to explain >>> why we're even having this discussion about consciousness. >>> >> >> On the contrary, if consciousness were an epiphenomenon that would >> explain why it evolved: it is a necessary side effect of intelligent >> behaviour, and was not developed as a separate, useless add-on. >> >> > > If consciousness is a side-effect that has no other effects, then where > is the information coming from when a person articulates something about > their conscious experience? If consciousness itself has no effects at all, > then how did the theory of epiphenomenalism come to be shared beyond the > conscious mind that first conceived of it? Wouldn't such a theory > necessarily be private and unsharable if consciousness has no effects? > > > As I understand it, being an epiphenomenon means one can give a causal > account of the phenomenon without mentioning it. But the epiphenomenon > necessarily accompanies the phenomenon. In the case of consciousness it's > essentially denying the possibility of a philosophical zombie. > > > Epiphenominalism is a form of dualism, like Descarte's interaction, except without the interaction. In epiphenominalism the causal linkage between the physical and mental worlds is strictly one way. Stathis gives an accurate definition when he said: "An epiphenomenon is a necessary side-effect of the primary phenomenon. The epiphenomenon has no separate causal efficacy of its own; if it did, then we could devise a test for consciousness. This, by the way, does not imply that consciousness does not exist or is unimportant." If epiphenominalism is possible, then that it implies zombies are possible. All they would require is cutting the causal link from the physical world to the mental world. This interview shows a good debate about epiphenominalism: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ss0aCWpNzSM&t=37m Jason -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
