Bruno wrote: *Response to relation looks like Behaviorism, that is pure 3p. * *Consciousness usually denote the first person awareness. *
Where does your line#1 imply your line#2? That darn Behaviorism (I don't argue with your usage of words) may be a 'liveless' 3p behavior as well. It may depend on YOUR (MY?) definition of Ccness that may, or may not include thinking/living creatures exclusively. Just think of 'pressure' related changes available also for lifeless(?) items. *Br: Denied ignorance is very bad, but what about the accepted ignorance? Then we can do all the theories we want, without ever taking ourselves too much seriously. * Would you please draw a line here between science and religion? Br: *If we use ignorance to forbid the theorizing then we will certainly learn nothing.* Or: we would learn a different type (logic?) leading to different theorizing and build a different (scientific???) worldview. Agnosticism in my view does not restrict, rather free up the ways of gathering information. JM On Sun, Mar 15, 2015 at 12:39 PM, Bruno Marchal <marc...@ulb.ac.be> wrote: > > On 14 Mar 2015, at 20:59, John Mikes wrote: > > LizR: > Consciousness, in my vocabulary sounds like: Response to Relations, not a > mental awarness in thinking/living creatures. > > > Response to relation looks like Behaviorism, that is pure 3p. > > Consciousness usually denote the first person awareness. > > > > Your views may be correct, if you accept conclusions drawn in the name of > the present science upon the incomplete circumstances we already know of. > Including Ccness as some mental awareness in living minds. Your > 'evolutionary advantages' are triggered - maybe including - effects from so > far even unreceived domains. > Similarly I would think twice to call an extinction 'devolutionary'. > My statement stays: I don't know. > > > Nobody knows. The question is always, what do you believe? > > > > A tyranosaure - even with terrific 'enthusiasm' - could not resist to > starving. > > I accept your denigratory opinion rather than being part of a contemporary > science - cheating/lying (theorizing?) based upon denied ignorance. > Your humble agnostix > > > Denied ignorance is very bad, but what about the accepted ignorance? Then > we can do all the theories we want, without ever taking ourselves too much > seriously. > > If we use ignorance to forbid the theorizing then we will certainly learn > nothing. > > Bruno > > > > > > On Thu, Mar 12, 2015 at 5:47 PM, LizR <lizj...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> On 13 March 2015 at 10:39, John Mikes <jami...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> I don't know. >>> JM >>> PS did I promise to solve the problems? Telling one's opinion is a free >>> right, even w/o being obliged to redress things. I fought against >>> reductionists and faithfuls, >>> now I simply speak my mind. J. >>> >>> That's OK, of course. My problem is that I couldn't understand what you >> were trying to say, so you didn't actually even manage to "tell your >> opinion". It just looked like random sniping with no actual meaning. (Maybe >> it was?) >> >> Anyway, my original point still stands. Consciousness may confer some >> evolutionary advantage. (e.g. a sense of self may mean an organism responds >> to threats and so on with greater enthusiasm that it would if operating on >> reflex). >> >> Any sensible objections / refutations welcome. >> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Everything List" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > > http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. 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