On Mon, Jul 13, 2015 Bruno Marchal <marc...@ulb.ac.be> wrote: But I do not accept “comp”. > > > You do accept comp by definition of comp. >
"Comp" has a definition?? That's news to me, it's certainly not in any dictionary and from your usage I gathered it was just a sequence of ASCII characters that you liked to type from time to time for some reason. > >> >> Logic is playing with symbols according to certain rules, and words are >> symbols. > > > > Words are usually not symbols, but sequence of symbols, > A sentence is a sequence of symbols. Letters are not symbols (except sometimes "I" and "a") because they don't symbolize anything, but words do symbolize something so words are symbols. > >> >> Then what the hell are we arguing about?! > > > > > On the fact, to make it straight, that once your 3-you (3-he, > 3-Hoàhn-Clark) are in two cities at once, your 1-you (1-he, 1-John Clark) > are and can aonly be in only one city from their points of view, on which > bear the step 3 question. > I recognize most (but not all) of the words in the above, but the way they are sequenced together doesn't seem to form any sort of coherent thought. >> >> you just said BOTH the W-guy AND the M-guy are the H-guy. > > Yes, but after the split, they *FEEL* to be only one of them. > That is irrelevant if they both are the H-guy, and you just said they are; then the things that deserve the label "H-guy" will *FEEL* to be in W AND M. Unless you change what you mean by "The Helsinki Man" a logical person could form no other conclusion. Mathematicians are supposed to give precise meaning to the symbols they use, but you're being sloppy, very sloppy. > > > The Helsinki man is in the two cities, but > [...] > Why on earth is a "but" needed? If the Helsinki man is in the two cities after duplication then before the duplication then the correct answer to the question "what will the Helsinki Man see after the duplication?" would be "Moscow AND Washington" and no "but" is required. Given your statement above I don't see how this is even a debatable question. > > > from his first person view, he feels only to be in one city, and he knew > that in advance. > He he and he! I am sick to death of "he"! Get rid of your philosophical training wheels and get rid of "he". > > > We do agree on the the notion ofpersonal identity, but your problem is > that you just avoid the fact that > 1) the experiencer will surivive > I agree, and if the experiencer is duplicated there will be 2 experiencers. I mean...what else could "duplicated" mean? > > > 2- and know in advance that from his first person pov he will be unique in > one city > I know that tomorrow when my future experiencers (plural) in Moscow and Washington look into the past to today they (plural) will see 2 unique paths leading up to them, but I would also know that if I am to be duplicated then when I look toward the future there is no unique path to be seen because "I" (aka The Helsinki Man of today) has no unique future. > > They are both the Helsinki man, that is why in Helsinki the experiencer is > unable to predict his next PERSONAL first person experience. > Who's next PERSONAL first person experience are you talking about? Oh yes, "*his*". Those personal pronouns really come in handy, they're great at hiding irrationality > >> >> The Helsinki Man means having that memory and we agree that TWO people >> who have that memory, so The Helsinki Man is two people, > > > > That never occurs from the first person pov, and the question was about > that. > The? Tommy has 2 apples. Which of Tommie's apples is "the" apple? The question was about that. > > > There is not an atom of ambiguity. The ambiguity comes only from the fact > that after the soplit, you decide to not read the person diary. > I have never disputed the validity of memories tn the thought experiment, so could you please explain the value and purpose of those stupid diaries? > I recall that the prediction is on the future experience of the experiencer . As opposed to what, the future experience of the non- experiencer ? >>> > >>> >> >>> In the 3-1 view, but "he" will never see "two cities” >> >> >> >> Then “he” doesn’t mean what you just said it does, “he” can’t mean >> somebody who remembers being the Helsinki Man. >> >> > > false. It always mean the guy who remember seeing Helsinki, > Then "he" will see BOTH cities! End of story. > > > but > Again with that "but". > > > after duplication he (both "he") will see only one city. > SO WHAT? Each "he" will see one, both will see 2, and you just agreed that "The Helsinki Man" is both,so The Helsinki Man will see both. What more needs to be said? > > > So P(one city) = 1. > Explain what the "P" means in the above, the probability of *who* seeing one city? Oh yes I forgot, the probability that "he" will see one city. Good old "he". > > > The Helsinki man can be sure of this; whoever he will become, he will > become a guy seeing only one city, > NO! The Helsinki man will become TWO guys each seeing only one city ; provided that you haven't changed what you mean by " he Helsinki M an " or "he" in the last 30 seconds, and I wouldn't be surprised if you did. John K Clark -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
