On 2/8/2017 9:49 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
On 08 Feb 2017, at 04:53, Brent Meeker wrote:
On 2/7/2017 9:12 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
Which is exactly why I'm explicit in defining what the theism is
that I consider preposterous and what other god ideas I'm merely
agnostic about. Then Bruno criticizes me for "supporting" the
former; rather than help him muddy the meaning of "God" so he can
call the truths of arithmetic "God".
Let us try to agree on some definition of God. Most people, after
and before Christ agrees on this: it is the origin of everything, it
is what everything proceeds of, unnameable and transcendent, that is
beyond us.
Are you OK, with it. Don't hesitate to improve it.
No, I'm not "OK" with it because it is a misleading appropriation of
a common word that is used to denote /*a superpowerful and
knowledgable person*/ who not only created everything, but /*cares
about human beings*/ and /*demands certain conduct*/ and /*who acts
in the world */in response to prayer. Your definition doesn't even
rise to the level of a deist god. Even a deist god is supposed to
care about human conduct.
The definition I gave is more general, and let such question open. All
atheists, christians and muslims I met do agree that their God satisfy
my definition.
So what? The Big Bang also satisfies your definition - which means it's
not at all definite.
Why adding the controversial attribute?
I don't "add" them. They are part of the meaning of "God" as used by
Christians, Muslims, Jews, and some other sects. Even the Greeks always
meant a person by "god".
We are already know that atheists do not believe in those attribute,
and I am agnostic on it.
You're agnostic about Yaweh and Zeus? Have you adopted radical
agnosticism like Telmo?
When we do science, we search the axioms on which more people agree
and then do the reasoning and see where we are driven. Why use a so
peculiar special theory, given that almost nobody in this list agrees
such a god does not exists,
Because this list is a very tiny sample of world population. When
people tell me that they are communists or Christians or vegetarians and
I ask them what they mean by that - I take them at their word.
Christians and Muslims and Jews all say that they believe in God who is
an immortal powerful supernatural PERSON who created everything and who
cares very much about how people behave (especially with their clothes
off). So who am I (or you) to say that's not what "God" means.
or even that, if it exists, we do not yet have evidences for it? Just
to say I don't believe in it? This is completely weird. You could as
well say that science has guven evidence that Earth does not exist, by
making earth flat by definition. This is not how science works. Why
insisting that we use the notion of God which has been imposed to it
by terror and violence for a very long time? You are completely
illustrating what Einstein said on the atheists and "free-thinker"(*):
they are completely unable to leave the religion they hate so much, up
to the point of hating even more the religion which use different
notion of God, like the original scientific one of the greeks and
Indians (and chinese ...).
Many religious people believe that the idea that God cares more on
humans than on spiders (say) is just utter arrogance, vanity, and
delusional.
"Many"? That's the fallacy of the dangling comparison. Many compared
to what? Not compared to the number who believe the contrary.
No one serious would postulate that, even if some will continue to
hope it, but there are no evidences at all, so let us be agnostic, and
not put this in the definition.
You have a fetish to avoid putting anything in the definition that would
rule out using the word "God", even though your meaning is quite
different from 99% of the people in the world who use the word.
Brent
“People are more unwilling to give up the word ‘God’ than to give up the
idea for which the word has hitherto stood”
--- Bertrand Russell
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