On 25 Nov 2017, at 19:16, agrayson2...@gmail.com wrote:
On Saturday, November 25, 2017 at 3:39:00 PM UTC, John Clark wrote:
On Thu, Nov 23, 2017 at 4:08 PM, <agrays...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Do you really think that when you pull a slot machine
and get some outcome, the 10 million other possible outcomes occur
in 10 million other universe?
>> I could be wrong but that would be my best guess.
> Is the slot machine duplicated in those 10 million new
universes?
If the Schrodinger Wave Equation really means what it says
then the answer can only be yes.
Since your conclusions seem immensely more bizarre than collapse of
the wf, your interpretation of what the SE means must be in error. AG
"finding bizarre" is a personal opinion, which is not valid in an
definitive argument, but it can be used to justify or not a new axiom.
What we have with the SWE is a theory which predicts bifurcating and
fusing histories/computation. By linearity you can start from many
histories, and consider that there is only differentiation (on first
person content of memory of experiences).
It is already provable in very weak fragments of arithmetic that all
pieces of computations, halting of not, exists in Arithmetic and are
emulated infinitely often by infinitely many universal machine/number.
So the many worlds/histories aspect of reality is to be expected for a
mechanist/cartesian philosopher/inquirer. It is "one universe" which
would be weird.
Now, to avoid that histories-proliferation, and contemplate oneself in
the mirror feeling to be unique, the founders of QM added to the SWE
the collapse postulate, which lead to the measurement problem: which
is just the problem of explaining what is that collapse. It leads to
third person (3p) indeterminacy, and 3p influence at a distance, and
this with ten thousand of incompatible incompatible theories, most of
them refuted by experiences (from Borh's idea that QM worked only on
the microscopic scale, to Wigner's idea that consciousness was
responsible for the cut (which is the only one theory
undistinguishable from Everett phenomenologically, except for Bohm
hidden variables which simulates the whole wave to interact at a
distance unusable information to give to primitively material
particles the ability to select consciousness in the many histories,
and this leads to infinitely many weird creature, looking like p-
zombies, but lacking consciousness and material particles (yet having
some role in the absence or presence of light on my computer screen.
If that is not bizarre,....
At some level, the error of adding the collapse, is the same error
done by Aristotle to Plato, adding a "real universe" in the Ocean of
Ideas proposed by Plato. That has lead to the Mind-Body problem, which
is the same as the problem of the foundation of Theology (What is the
Mind? What is Matter? and how are they related). The quantum
measurement problem is a sort of toy version of the Mind-Body problem,
and its solution consists (and has to consist if we assume digital
Mechanism) in extracting physics from a measure on first person
(hopefully plural) from a relative state statistics on all
computations. We have to justify what the quantum computations win in
the first person limit, in arithmetic.
Monism imposes to embed the knower in the picture. Newton would have
agreed that a physicist of mass m1 attracts a physicist of mass m2
following the law of gravitation, and many accept the idea that
physics applies on physicists, and that is only what Everett did.
Now, with Gödel's 1931 technic we can embed the mathematicians (or an
approximation, without Mechanism) in arithmetic, and we can see that
the monist and mechanist mind-body problem reduces into justifying
physics from the experiences available in arithmetic of the universal
(Turing) Machine. We keep monism, and get a very simple conceptual
realm or reality, and then explains the experience by the lawfulness
of arithmetic, as seen from inside using Gödel's definition of
"belief" and its many intensional arithmetical or non arithmetical
variants.
Bruno
The Copenhagen people felt that was just too
strange so they stuck stuff into their theory that the mathematics
alone didn't say, as a result they got rid of one form of weirdness,
the multiverse, but inadvertently created two new forms of
weirdness: the future can effect the past and things only exist when
you look at them. There is just no way to stamp out the weird from
the quantum world and be consistent with experiment.
> And the gambler cranking it? And the casino? And the city
where the casino is resident? And Andromeda, and beyond, up to and
including the BB?
Yes, and that raises another question, how can the MWI produce
finite probabilities if infinite numbers are involved? To make
matters even worse the infinite numbers involved are not even
countable. The answer is not all those universes change the
probability.
If I paint a number of disks on a wall of various diameters then put
a blindfold on and throw darts at the wall there are a
uncountably infinite number of points that dart could hit, but
my eye is not perfect so there are only a finite number spots on
that wall that I can consciously distinguish, and there are
more of those spots in the large disks than the small ones so there
are more distinguishable versions of me seeing the dart hit the
larger disk than the smaller.
To get back to the slot machine, if the Schrodinger
Wave is correct there are more than 10 million versions of me
looking at that slot machine, infinitely more in fact, but the
version of me where a pebble on a planet in the Andromeda Galaxy is
a quarter inch to the left is not consciously discernible by me from
a universe where the pebble is a quarter inch to the right, and so
when I consciously calculate probabilities the two universes
can be lumped together.
John K Clark
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