> On 15 Apr 2018, at 16:11, John Clark <johnkcl...@gmail.com> wrote: > > On Sun, Apr 15, 2018 at 6:33 AM, Bruno Marchal <marc...@ulb.ac.be > <mailto:marc...@ulb.ac.be>> wrote: > > >>why do you keep asking the same very stupid question "After *YOU* have > been duplicated in a *YOU* duplicating machine what one and only one thing > will *YOU* see?” > > > I asked something more precise, after explain the difference between the > 1p-you and the 3p-you. > > And the “explanation” Bruno Marchal gave was that in a world that contains > 1p-you duplicating machines 1p-you means the one and only 1p-you that is you.
No, it means the individual answer given by the two duplicated person. > And what does "you" mean? The 1p-you of course. Yes, in the question asked. And as others said, it is obvious that both duplicated person see only one city among the two. Making both confirming the exclusive disjunction “W & M” validated, and invalidating all the others. > Bruno, in everyday life that doesn't have Drexler style matter duplicating > machines none of this is important, but when you stretch things to the very > limit of what is physically possible as we tend to do on this list it becomes > very important indeed. By the computationalist assumption, such duplication are in principle possible, and indeed actualised in arithmetic, and that is all what is relevant in the steps which follows. > > > >>You keep criticising Aristotle and Plato without understanding that > today, in theology (atheists or christian) [...] >> >> STOP RIGHT THERE! If atheist and Christian scholars both study theology >> then theology is the study of things that are God and also the study of >> things t As I said before, for Bruno words mean whatever Bruno wants them to >> mean and in this case he has decreed that the word “theology" has no meaning >> at all. > > > I use the word in the original sense. > > I know you love to invent new meanings for common words that nobody but you > has ever heard of, however it makes no difference what meaning you have > decreed the word "theology" should have today, if both christian and atheist > scholars are involved in the study of theology and you tell me that Bob is > studying theology then you have told me absolutely precisely NOTHING new > about Bob. And Bruno, as a logician you should be ashamed of yourself. Ad hominem + boring vocabulary issues. In science we just redefine the terms at the beginning of all papers, or we refer to key papers which have the definition when they are very well known. > > >> If matter is not needed to make a calculation how did the founders of > Intel get rich wasting their time making microchips when all they needed was > a textbook on Robinson arithmetic? > > > To implement computations relatively to their local physical reality. > > In other words you admit mathematics alone is not enough, it can't do > everything, you've got to stick physical reality into the mix because physics > can do some things mathematics can’t. You misread what I said. Yes, we need brain and physical machine to get the human consciousness, but that does not imply that brain and physical matter comes from the arithmetical reality "seen from inside” (in the Gödel’s sense). > Without matter that obeys the known laws of physics (which nobody has > derived from pure mathematics nor even come close to doing so) it would be > impossible to calculate 2+2. That does not follow. You talk like a creationist who says that without God there would not have been evolution. You invoke Matter using it in a theological or metaphysical invalid way. > > > Are you able to doubt the assumption of physicalism? > Yes I am able to doubt it, just show me something that can calculate 2+2 > without matter that obeys the known laws of physics and I would doubt it very > much. But I'm not holding my breath. > > Read any textbook, or Smullyan’s to mock a mocking bird, and you will understand that infinitely many combinators do that. If you agree that all odd squares are either the sum of 1 and 8 triangular numbers, or not, INDEPENDENTLY of any physical laws, or humans verifying this fact, then arithmetic emulates all computations independently of any physical existence. I consider 2+2 is even more sure than any extrapolation from a finite set of observation, and doubly so if the extrapolation brings an ontological commitment. > > Apparently not, from what you say above. This means you are religious > In Bruno-world words mean whatever Bruno wants them to mean, so of course I'm > religious, > You forget to quote the word “in the pejorative sense”. Here I meant that you defend a dogma. Usually I use the more correct “pseudo-religious” terming. Bruno > you could also make me a teapot or a choo choo train or whatever you want. > But logician Lewis Carroll made fun of people who do that in Alice Through > the Looking-Glass: > > " When I use a word,” Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, “it > means just what I choose it to mean—neither more nor less.” . “The question > is,” said Alice, “whether you can make words mean so many different things.” > > John K Clark > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com > <mailto:everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com>. > To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com > <mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com>. > Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list > <https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list>. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout > <https://groups.google.com/d/optout>. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. 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