On Saturday, September 29, 2018 at 6:40:05 AM UTC, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > On 28 Sep 2018, at 18:37, agrays...@gmail.com <javascript:> wrote: > > > > On Friday, September 28, 2018 at 4:04:41 PM UTC, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >> >> On 28 Sep 2018, at 11:32, agrays...@gmail.com wrote: >> >> >> >> On Friday, September 28, 2018 at 1:02:36 AM UTC, kujawski...@gmail.com >> wrote: >>> >>> Hello I think this good forum for this topic - what do you think about >>> Mathematical Universe, there are very big arguments for that hypothesis: >>> f >>> - applicability of mathematic, to natural sciences >>> - all we discovere are structures and I didnt find explanation of the >>> diference beetwen physical structures and mathematical structures. >>> - scientists and philosophers of science tend to affirm belive in >>> diverse structure and homogeneous substance (neutral monism) or >>> mathematicism vide Ladyman, Ross, French, Tegmark etc. >>> >>> What are your thoughts. >>> >> >> If it's what I think it is, it's demonstrably wrong. One counter example >> suffices; there are plane wave solutions to Maxwell's equations, but if you >> know what plane waves are, they clearly do NOT exist in physical reality. >> >> >> >> With mathematicalism, we don’t assume that there is a >> (primitive/irreducible) physical reality. >> >> You are begging the question. >> > > *In what way? The MUH says, for example, that for every mathematical > solution or equation, there is a (perceived) physical universe mapped > identically from, or into that solution or equation. I gave a simple > counter example. AG* > > > If that is the MUH, then that it is plainly ridiculous, indeed. To have a > perceived universe, you need a measure on the computation/sigma-sentences. > The physical emerges from an arithmetical phenomenon (assuming mechanism in > cognitive science). > > The version of mathematicalism implied by mechanism does not lead any > choice for the “physical reality”, it has to be a statistic on computations > structured by the “observable” mode of self-reference. That indeed predicts > quantum logic, and the many “histories” interpretation of arithmetic. > Oracle are not impossible, but there are no evidence for them, and should > be invoked in last resort (a bit like the “Alien” in cosmology). > > The empirical evidence is that there is no physical universe at all. > > Bruno >
*This double-talk nonsense IMO. I clearly gave a counter-example to the MUH, falsifying it. Moreover, I explained clearly why I used "perceived". I just meant that plane waves can never be observed, and since they are solutions to Maxwell's equations, the MUH is false. Deal with that directly and stop with the double talk about the non-existence of the physical universe. That's not even an issue, since I am only dealing with what can be observed. AG* > > > >> Since the antic dream argument, we know that observation cannot be used >> to prove that anything exist, but an observer. >> >> Bruno >> >> >> >> If this is correct, other models also fall by the wayside. AG >> >>> >>> >>> Regards >>> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Everything List" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to everything-li...@googlegroups.com. >> To post to this group, send email to everyth...@googlegroups.com. >> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> >> >> > On Friday, September 28, 2018 at 4:04:41 PM UTC, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >> >> On 28 Sep 2018, at 11:32, agrays...@gmail.com wrote: >> >> >> >> On Friday, September 28, 2018 at 1:02:36 AM UTC, kujawski...@gmail.com >> wrote: >>> >>> Hello I think this good forum for this topic - what do you think about >>> Mathematical Universe, there are very big arguments for that hypothesis: >>> f >>> - applicability of mathematic, to natural sciences >>> - all we discovere are structures and I didnt find explanation of the >>> diference beetwen physical structures and mathematical structures. >>> - scientists and philosophers of science tend to affirm belive in >>> diverse structure and homogeneous substance (neutral monism) or >>> mathematicism vide Ladyman, Ross, French, Tegmark etc. >>> >>> What are your thoughts. >>> >> >> If it's what I think it is, it's demonstrably wrong. One counter example >> suffices; there are plane wave solutions to Maxwell's equations, but if you >> know what plane waves are, they clearly do NOT exist in physical reality. >> >> >> >> With mathematicalism, we don’t assume that there is a >> (primitive/irreducible) physical reality. >> >> You are begging the question. >> >> Since the antic dream argument, we know that observation cannot be used >> to prove that anything exist, but an observer. >> >> Bruno >> >> >> >> If this is correct, other models also fall by the wayside. AG >> >>> >>> >>> Regards >>> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Everything List" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to everything-li...@googlegroups.com. >> To post to this group, send email to everyth...@googlegroups.com. >> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> >> >> > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to everything-li...@googlegroups.com <javascript:>. > To post to this group, send email to everyth...@googlegroups.com > <javascript:>. > Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
