> On 12 Dec 2018, at 23:33, John Clark <johnkcl...@gmail.com> wrote: > > On Wed, Dec 12, 2018 at 4:10 PM Jason Resch <jasonre...@gmail.com > <mailto:jasonre...@gmail.com>> wrote: > > > Tell me why an electron is a thing and 3 is not. > > An electron can change in time and space, 3 can not change in either. > > >>Computations "exist" in the universe of numbers in the same way that the > >>Incredible Hulk "exists" in the universe of Marvel comics. > > >And the "universe of numbers that describe the coordinates of mathematical > >objects called elections and photons" ? > > I don't understand the question. > > > One of the few things we know for certain about consciousness is it > > involves change, but numbers never change in space or time; matter/energy > > is the only known thing that can change. > > > Between any two casually separated universes, there is no means of > > comparing time, mass, size, etc. > > If it's separated there is no means of proving it even exists. But it's even > worse than that, logically the number 3 can not change, if it did it would > not be a 3. It reminds me of an old joke: 3+3=7, for extremely large values > of 3. > > > That platonic computations seem static is only from your viewpoint. > > But I thought our subjective viewpoint was what you were trying to figure out > and our viewpoint is certainly not static. > > > For those beings whose minds are described by those computations, they > > would see a changing dynamic world around them. > > What would they see change? It can't be numbers, in arithmetic numbers are > replaced not changed, even after writing 3+3=6 the number 3 is still around > and doing just fine. If you know of something besides matter/energy that can > change I'd love to hear about it.
Very easy. The content of the relative memory of all observers implemented in arithmetic. Bruno > > >>I don't have proof but I have lots of examples of matter doing arithmetic > >>but nobody has an example of arithmetic doing matter. Matter/energy may or > >>may not be fundamental, but it's certainly more fundamental than > >>arithmetic. > > > This statement just shows you haven't read the papers. > > I read them until it got too silly to read more, and that didn't take long. > > >I am showing the inconsistency of the "Presentism" view, that what exists > >must constantly change in order for us to perceive change. > > The past must leave some sort of record of itself for the present to know it > existed, and to make a record something must change and numbers don't change, > as far as we know only matter and energy have the ability to change in space > and time. > > >>If it's not a change in experience with respect to time what is it with > >>respect to? The only alternative is a change in experience with respect to > >>space, but such a move would take time. > > > Change as we experience it is with respect to the self's indexical position > > and relation to previous and later states in some causal progression. > > Without matter/energy and thus without change how are these indexical marker > positions of yours recorded? If I'm in the integer 8 in the Fibonacci > sequence there is no way I could know that I was in the Fibonacci sequence or > in a sequence of any sort unless I remembered that my previous state was a 5 > and the one before that was a 3, but to form a memory something has to change > and 3, 5 and 8 never change. > > > Thus our brains perceive change despite being a part of what is > objectively a static object. The you from 5 minutes ago is still perceiving > the point in time 5 minutes ago. > > That requires a memory and that means something must have changed 5 minutes > ago that has persisted to now. And there is no way for pure numbers to do > that, but matter/energy can. > > John K Clark > > > > > > Jason > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com > <mailto:everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com>. > To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com > <mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com>. > Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list > <https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list>. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout > <https://groups.google.com/d/optout>. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
