On 5/12/2019 1:35 AM, Philip Thrift wrote:
On Saturday, May 11, 2019 at 9:21:45 PM UTC-5, Brent wrote:
On 5/11/2019 6:58 PM, Philip Thrift wrote:
On Saturday, May 11, 2019 at 6:52:36 PM UTC-5, Brent wrote:
On 5/11/2019 4:16 PM, Philip Thrift wrote:
On Saturday, May 11, 2019 at 6:06:31 PM UTC-5, Brent wrote:
On 5/11/2019 3:45 PM, Philip Thrift wrote:
On Saturday, May 11, 2019 at 3:31:19 PM UTC-5, Cosmin
Visan wrote:
How do AI fanboys explain telepathy and
precognition ? In the case of consciousness <> AI,
telepathy and precognition are more easily
explainable, in the sense that consciousness being
non-local, it can indeed create cases in which
spatially and temporally separated consciousness
can communicate. But in the case of local AIs, how
can such phenomena have any chance of being
explained ?
I doubt telepathy, but I do have a low-level
precognition thought experiment handy:
In the typical EPR experiment setup, particle A goes
one way, and particle B goes another way, to detector-A
and detector-B respectively.
Now particles A and B are "entangled"
(quantum-mechanically) , so that detector-B settings
will stochastically influence what detector-A detects
(and vice versa).
Now suppose detector-A is placed in a person's brain
(not far away) in such a way that particle A (via
detector-A) influences a neuron or two, but detector-B
is light years (traveling distance) away. Can
detector-B settings made years in the future influence
what the person's neurons do in the present?
Why make it impossible to perform by placing B far
away? The only relevant condition is whether Bob's
setting was made space-like or time-like relative to
Alice's. And that kind of experiment has been done.
There is correlation per QM.
Brent
Huh? I claimed it was possible to perform. Not impossible to
perform.
You claim we can send Bob light years away to perform this
experiment?? How?
And why bother since Aspect has already done it with Bob
selecting his setting space-like relative to Alice's? The
case in which Bob's setting is done in Alice's future light
cone has been done too, but isn't very interesting since
Alice could then influence Bob's setting. Are you testing
whether Alice's neurons will agree with Alice's instruments?
I don't see what you're getting at?
Brent
No. Bob could be someone on another planet (Bob will in the
future of that other planet).
Or the idea already discussed, that the B particle could go out
into space and heavy masses could bend its path around and it
returns to Earth. In the future.
In any case, Bob is someone in the future, not the present.
So suppose Alice, in her lab makes a setting and measures her
entangled particle. The she walks down the hall to Bob's lab and
says, "Ok, Bob you are in the future of my setting and
measurements. Go ahead and do your thing." What difference is
there between that and Bob is on another planet? He's in Alice's
future light cone.
Brent
/The EPR thought experiment, performed with electron–positron pairs. A
source (center) sends particles toward two observers, electrons to
Alice (left) and positrons to Bob (right), who can perform spin
measurements./
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EPR_paradox#Measurements_on_an_entangled_state
The A particle travels 10 feet to the A-detector (Alice).
The B particle travels 2.939e+14 miles* (50 light years) to the
B-detector (Bob).
Bob could be on another planet. Or on Earth, if the B particle path
could be bent around somehow via GR.
Bob may be 30 years old. He hasn't yet been born when Alice gets the A
particle.
But my question is what is being tested in the experiment that isn't
tested when Bob is just down the hall. Are you concerned that the
entanglement will "get old" as the photon travels 50 light years (even
though it's proper time lapse is zero)?
Brent
* calculation via Google
But with the phenomenon of "quantum entanglement" it occurs to me that
some /weak/ form of both telepathy and precognition could occur:
*Stabilized entanglement of massive mechanical oscillators*
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-018-0038-x
But how weak, TBD.
@philipthrift
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