> On 22 Jul 2019, at 19:56, John Clark <johnkcl...@gmail.com> wrote: > > On Mon, Jul 22, 2019 at 4:08 AM Bruno Marchal <marc...@ulb.ac.be > <mailto:marc...@ulb.ac.be>> wrote: > > >> You keep confusing stuff that can *do* things from stuff that can not > > > You keep assuming that such things exists. > > You keep assuming existence exists.
I have no interpretation for “existence exists”. I don’t see what this could mean. Mechanism assumes elementary arithmetic, but all theories enough rich to prove the existence of computer have to assumed it. > > > When we do metaphyics with the scientific method ... > > ...then it's just called "physics”. In the Aristotelian theology. Not in platonician theology. That’s the whole point. Physics does not address the issues of metaphysics at all. > > >> from stuff that can not. A sequence of ASCII characters can't *do* > >> anything unless it interacts with a brain made of matter that obeys the > >> laws of physics, and the exact same thing is true of digital machine code. > > > Using Aristotle theology. > > Screw Aristotle. Screw theology. > > >> Lambda Calculus and Turing quintuplets can't *do* anything unless they > >> interact with the physical brain of a mathematician, > > > Relatively to you, > > So you agree that a Turing Machine can do something that Turing quintuplets > or Lambda Calculus can not. Physical machine can do thing that a mathematical machine cannot do. But they physicalness can still be a relative notion. In arithmetic, it is a theorem that relative physical machine can do more than non physical machine. > > > assuming you are made of primitive stuff. > > Regardless of if I'm made of "primitive stuff" or not it remains true that a > Turing Machine can do something that Turing quintuplets or Lambda Calculus > can not. Yes, but that does not make them primitively real. The physical emerges from all computation, and is explained to be not entirely Turing emulable. This is already illustrated in the iterated self-duplication: no program can generate the first person experiences obtained, but the arithmetical reality do iterate ad infinitum the self-duplications, and makes subject aware of the presence of a non Turing emulable reality. Bruno > > >>a Turing Machine needs nothing else that is physical because it is already > >>physical. All by itself a Turing Machine can simulate Turing quintuplets > >>but Turing quintuplets CAN NOT simulate a Turing Machine, > > > You change the definition of Turing machine. > > I didn't but it wouldn't matter if I did. Machines don't care about > definitions, they just keep on doing what they do. You can define them anyway > you like and they won't miss a beat. A paper tape and a read/write head that > can change states has a name, in English it's "Turing Machine" but I don't > know what it is in Brunospeak. > > > I don’t believe in your god, John. > > Screw God. > > John K Clark > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com > <mailto:everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com>. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/CAJPayv00rDjwmjrhFumVCc6CPFdz6r-WgTOcnFveDgq6fs3W1g%40mail.gmail.com > > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/CAJPayv00rDjwmjrhFumVCc6CPFdz6r-WgTOcnFveDgq6fs3W1g%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/80019056-8640-4943-8A37-4C235C9D845D%40ulb.ac.be.
