On Sunday, October 13, 2019 at 12:00:53 AM UTC-6, Alan Grayson wrote: > > > > On Saturday, October 12, 2019 at 11:48:33 PM UTC-6, Alan Grayson wrote: >> >> >> >> On Saturday, October 12, 2019 at 11:30:19 PM UTC-6, Brent wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> On 10/12/2019 7:21 PM, Alan Grayson wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> On Saturday, October 12, 2019 at 8:07:46 PM UTC-6, Brent wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On 10/12/2019 5:46 PM, Alan Grayson wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>>> What does "realized" mean? made real? Being real is a metaphysical >>>>>> concept. Bohr never said anything about components of a superposition >>>>>> being real. He famously said “Physics is not about how the world >>>>>> is, it is about what we can say about the world” and “Everything we call >>>>>> real is made of things that cannot be regarded as real.” >>>>>> >>>>>> Brent >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> The latter comment is ridiculous. Aren't protons, neutrons and >>>>> electrons real? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Ask Bohr. You never answer my questions; why should I answer yours. >>>>> >>>>> Brent >>>>> >>>> >>>> What questions haven't I answered??? AG >>>> >>>> >>>> Scan up until you see this symbol "?" >>>> >>>> Brent >>>> >>> >>> I explained what "realized" means by giving an example; S's cat, alive >>> and dead simultaneously. >>> >>> >>> That's a representation in the theory. Every measurement that >>> "realizes" its state finds it to be one or the other. So what's the >>> operational significance of "being realized"? Schroedinger's whole point >>> was that an alive and dead cat is never *realized*. >>> >>> Brent >>> >> >> As I previously suggested, since there is no operator that has those cat >> states as eigenstates, S's example was probably meant to falsify the then >> prevailing (and continuing) interpretation of superposition, as it leads to >> an absurdity. It's not just about the cat! But the case of spin could be an >> exception to my general claim that it's a fallacy to interpret a >> superposition to mean the system so described, is in all component states >> simultaneously. AG >> > > S's cat scenario was not simply about the fate of a cat. After all, we > already knew a cat can't be alive and dead simultaneously. It must have > been to show the fallacy of the prevailing interpretation of superposition. > AG >
Incidentally, as I pointed out in a previous discussion of this issue, decoherence doesn't help. Even though it is extremely rapid, say 10^(-20) sec, there is still a finite duration when, according to the standard interpretation of superposition, the cat it is alive and dead simultaneously. LC might see this as nit-picking, but it isn't. We know a cat cannot be alive and dead simultaneously regardless of the time duration, however short. So this result, when apply decoherence, doesn't avoid the superposition fallacy illustrated by S's cat. It can be traced to the interpretation of the superposition of (|decayed> + |undecayed>) of the radioactive source. AG > >>> >>> Also, I said I would get back to you about spin superpositions when I >>> have time to research the issue. Other than those items, I honestly have no >>> idea what you're complaining about. Try asking me again. AG >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "Everything List" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to everyth...@googlegroups.com. >>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/57880cde-6295-4459-95c5-2d5ecef15133%40googlegroups.com >>> >>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/57880cde-6295-4459-95c5-2d5ecef15133%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>> . >>> >>> >>> -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/f6b15402-e17f-4e85-8966-15ed4d2e6f88%40googlegroups.com.
