> On 29 Apr 2020, at 01:23, spudboy100 via Everything List > <everything-list@googlegroups.com> wrote: > > Thanks Bruno. Plotinus and Plato could easily have been absolutely accurate, > and maybe we may or but in my way of thinking, maybe not for quite a while. > Having said this, if you go for my latching on to a ridiculous conjecture > (driven surely by emotionalism!), I guess that given enormous time, plus > vacuum flux, a mind out of nowhere sprang up ex-nihilo, up pops a mind with > perhaps false memories and dreams us all up (physically). Maybe...maybe.... > Do I win any prizes if I'm right? Perhaps El Gordo or the Irish Sweepstakes?
Read Davus book on computability, or ask me any question. But if you are open to belief that 2+2 = 4, without adding metaphysics to it, you will eventually understand that *all* computations are realised in arithmetic, and that the physical reality has to be retrieved from a statistic on all those computations. This makes mechanism testable, and as we go near quantum mechanics, already partially tested, and tested as better than any materialist explanation, which needs non-mechanism, which today is highly speculative (no evidence at all after QM). If classical mechanics was confirmed, that would have been a giant evidence that mechanism is wrong (in the cognitive science), but as everyone known, classical mechanics is false (just a good approximation for some class of phenomena). Once people understand the mathematical definition of what is a computation (as opposed to one of its physical implementation), it is obvious that the notion of “physical universe” is akin to the fake pseudo-religious notion of God. It is OK to believe in a physical universe, as it is OK to bet we are locally machine, but it is not OK (it is inconsistent) to believe in both Physicalism and Mechanism. With mechanism, physics is entirely reduced to a theory of consciousness, or just of consistency (<>t) and its intensional mode. Bruno > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Bruno Marchal <marc...@ulb.ac.be> > To: everything-list@googlegroups.com > Sent: Tue, Apr 28, 2020 6:46 am > Subject: Re: The Observer & The Existence of Reality > > >> On 28 Apr 2020, at 02:35, spudboy100 via Everything List >> <everything-list@googlegroups.com <mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com>> >> wrote: >> >> If we can find the Great Mind's purpose, yeah, Computer Scientists and >> Mathematicians might comprehend it. Astronomers and physicists would have to >> (in my imagination) locate the instruction set and decipher it. Me? I am >> waiting for the virus closures to life. > > I hope you are well. I don’t think the great mind has a purpose. Plotinus > makes an excellent analysis why God cannot be part of the beings (despite or > because he is responsible for the existence of each beings) and why God might > not have a purpose at all, which is rather normal, as a purpose necessitate a > form of incompleteness, and God is by definition complete. > > That why the theology of the machine might be more like some school of > hinduism or buddhism, with the idea that the “creation” is an illusion. Of > course, in that case the creator is an illusion too. > > We tolerate the naive anthropomorphisation because that’s has (and still is > in some part of the world) a mean to make people obeying to a totally > powerful tyran. > > Keep in mind that for the greeks neoplatonician, god is just a nickname for > the truth that we search. It is whatever explain all the rest. Theology is > the fundamental science by definition, and then we can debate if that > “everything” is a material being, a mathematical being, a personal being, a > non-personal being, etc. > > Usually the materialist start from the assumption of the creation, and makes > it into a dogma. > > The constant debate on the existence of God or not, hides the fact that the > meaning of that debate was, for the greeks, about the existence of a primary > physical universe. > > Once you understand the difference between truth and proof, and the fact that > all computation are “truly” emulated in arithmetic, then, even without > mechanism, we have a reason to doubt the existence of the primitive physical > universe, and/or physicalism. > > The notion of god is so general that its existence or its meta-existence is > basically trivial in Platonism. Then the interesting question is on its > nature. God is a very general notion, but is not trivial, like the collection > of all sets is not a set. A model of set theory is a highly subtle notion. > Mechanism works because there is a notion of universal machine, which is > unique in mathematics and I would say the whole of science. The discovery of > the universal machine is a bomb whose ripples will stay with us forever, and > indeed we come from there (provably assuming mechanism). > > Bruno > > > >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Bruno Marchal <marc...@ulb.ac.be <mailto:marc...@ulb.ac.be>> >> To: everything-list@googlegroups.com >> <mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com> >> Sent: Mon, Apr 27, 2020 5:14 am >> Subject: Re: The Observer & The Existence of Reality >> >> >> > On 23 Apr 2020, at 06:53, Samiya Illias <samiyaill...@gmail.com >> > <mailto:samiyaill...@gmail.com>> wrote: >> > >> > If the All-Mighty God accepts me in The Kingdom of The Hereafter, I trust >> > He will explain to us our roles, responsibilities, perks and privileges. >> >> OK. >> >> >> > He didn’t create this world without purpose, >> >> >> So let us search the purpose, and try theories. The notion of purpose is not >> an easy notion. >> >> >> >> > I’m sure there is a greater purpose to our eternal life! >> >> >> So let us do the research work, as this is not obvious, although a pleasant >> idea (but that is reason to be careful on this, especially when we are still >> on the terrestrial plane, where modesty is not so much an option). >> >> When you assume a greater purpose you need to take into account that some >> people will borrow an ersatz greater purpose for terrestrial use, and that >> this can eventually hide for long the genuine higher purpose of the higher >> self. The machine already understand that some (religious) truth go only >> without saying. >> >> Those who trust the great Goddess leaves the advertising to Her.The genuine >> mystic stays mute, or propose some theory and reason conditionally. >> >> Bruno >> >> >> >> >> > >> > -- >> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> > "Everything List" group. >> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> > email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> > <mailto:unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.> >> > To view this discussion on the web visit >> > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/DEEC3CCB-0CE7-45F9-9AED-75285CFD90E4%40gmail.com >> > >> > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/DEEC3CCB-0CE7-45F9-9AED-75285CFD90E4%40gmail.com>. >> > <image0.jpeg> >> >> > >> > >> > >> >> On 23-Apr-2020, at 6:05 AM, spudboy...@aol.com >> >> <mailto:spudboy...@aol.com> wrote: >> >> >> >> So, if you have pleased, the All-Mighty, and are ushered in to Janah, and >> >> you are given permission, what would you do for your first year there? >> >> > >> > -- >> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> > "Everything List" group. >> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> > email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> > <mailto:unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.> >> > To view this discussion on the web visit >> > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/DEEC3CCB-0CE7-45F9-9AED-75285CFD90E4%40gmail.com >> > >> > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/DEEC3CCB-0CE7-45F9-9AED-75285CFD90E4%40gmail.com>. >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Everything List" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> <mailto:unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.> >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/38000B27-95A9-4DC1-B5E9-FB74887BF989%40ulb.ac.be >> >> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/38000B27-95A9-4DC1-B5E9-FB74887BF989%40ulb.ac.be>. >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Everything List" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com >> <mailto:everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com>. >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/1784813558.1284350.1588034132039%40mail.yahoo.com >> >> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/1784813558.1284350.1588034132039%40mail.yahoo.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>. >> > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com > <mailto:everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com>. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/533D9D0D-5BB8-4CD9-BEBD-CB8CB838D08C%40ulb.ac.be > > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/533D9D0D-5BB8-4CD9-BEBD-CB8CB838D08C%40ulb.ac.be?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> > . > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com > <mailto:everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com>. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/562184542.1888658.1588116224188%40mail.yahoo.com > > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/562184542.1888658.1588116224188%40mail.yahoo.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. 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