Re: [Consciousness-Online] FW: Is Artificial Life Conscious?

spudboy100 via Everything List Sat, 07 May 2022 18:18:58 -0700

Look, if a convinced Christian like Frank Tipler, or Don Page, have little 
trouble with machinery achieving mind at some point in the future, then you 
should have no problem with postulating that machinery can do the trick, If it 
emulates, what it takes, say, spindle cells, then why not? I am not saying it 
has to, being no scientist at all, but philosophically it may work. Your views 
on life may hold for a long while as well, since Urey-Miller may be more 
profound, since who has throw carbon and water together (sulphur too I read) 
and a plant, or an original cell. I am not saying this cannot have happened, 
just that it has not. For a hypothesis on mind, I lean towards Penrose- 
Hameroff, unless you have something better?

-----Original Message-----
From: Philip Benjamin <medinucl...@hotmail.com>
To: Everything List <everything-list@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Sat, May 7, 2022 4:53 pm
Subject: FW: [Consciousness-Online] FW: Is Artificial Life Conscious?

Saturday, May 7, 2022 3:53 PM 
'general_the...@googlegroups.com'general_theory@googlegroups.comSubject: RE: 
[Consciousness-Online] FW: Is Artificial Life Conscious?    [Rosemary Rock 
Evans] “And although I do not disagree with your idea of the immortal soul 
being dark energy, …. The brain alone does nothing. The emotion is by far the 
most important factor and all of it is metaphysical.” [Philip Benjamin]    No, 
I never equated dark energy with soul/spirit, because in all ancient languages 
soul/spirit have their roots in breath/breeze. When the last breath was gone, 
the ancients discerned that life is over. Thus ‘life principle’ was equated 
with something similar to  wind! If they had any understanding of “invisible 
matter” they might have equated ‘life principle’ with that--  “matter” 
nevertheless.  Dark matter PARTICLES— not dark energy – as any other matter 
will have chemistries i.e. spin governed particle configurations called 
chemical bonds. A resonant dark twin made of PARTICLES is cocreated at the 
moment of conception. Resonance is rudimentary recognition. That is plausibly 
the basis of self-awareness, if “ self” is real and invisible. Self-talk, 
self-respect etc. cannot be dark-energy talk and dark-energy self-respect. None 
talks to dark energy.     Dark energy is an invention to save the Big Bang 
speculation and the mathematics associated with it. Dark-matter was more 
accurately termed “missing matter” by Fritz Zwicky, because there was areal 
measurable mass difference of distant rotating hot bodies calculated optically 
and gravitationally. Vera Rubin confirmed that. Astrophysical hot bodies are 
composed of H, He and perhaps innumerable particles of the corresponding 
dark-matter. Biosphere consists of 92 + ordinary ‘light matter’ and possibly 
corresponding dark-matter. There is nothing outlandish about that. Philip 
Benjamin       From: 'Rosemary Rock-Evans' via Consciousness-Online 
<general_the...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, May 5, 2022 10:19 AM
To: general_the...@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: [Consciousness-Online] FW: Is Artificial Life Conscious?    I can 
understand why the young man who commented , said what he did. There is a great 
emphasis on AI and robotics at the moment in many universities. He mentionned 
neural nets, for example, and these are used for finger print recognition in 
the police.    But it is as if we are trying to make things whichare artificial 
have some degree of 'soul' because we want them to be humane - kind. Can we 
program kindness, empathy, self awareness, etc into a machine?    It is very 
laudible, because whoever is doing this, wants machines to be 'humane'. It 
would be wonderful if we could - do not hurt - but machines should be under our 
control, so that they don't hurt, becauseonly things which have a soul can be 
hurt - whether physically or emotionally.    Memory, learning ability - are 
just functions - that in many ways can be replicated - but love, hurt, hate, 
joy, desire, grief, etc - the emotions?Our soul experiences them.    And maybe 
by this simple statement I have defined what 'life' is and consciousness. It is 
the ability to be hurt and to love and be loved. To experience emotions. And I 
would hope that a convincing enough number of youtube videos show that animals 
do both - and that is why we are all 'animals' - we have applied this 
definition without even thinking about it.    And although I do not disagree 
with your idea of theimmortal soul being dark energy, it is the immortal soul 
that counts as the ultimate test of whether one is conscious. A person can have 
a brain and die of grief or loneliness or fear. The brain alone does nothing. 
The emotion is by far the most important factor and all of it is metaphysical.  
  Self consciousness is, I think, something else. A child and a dog do not 
really experienceself consciousness, although they are clearly conscious.    I 
think we need to start valuing the things that make us [and living things] 
'human', without attempting to replicate them - be 'God'. I may be given a self 
driving car, but only David can point out the beauty of the cloud formations 
and talk about the clarity of the light. A machine does not know beauty.    It 
is the separation of the 'feminine' emotional, perceptive side from the 
symbolically unemotional, memory driven so called scientific side that has got 
us into the mess we are in - in Ukraine for example. The 'masculine' has 
entirely taken over, where personal desires and objectives, avoidance of all 
unfiltered perceptions of reality, and an ability to devise a strategy that 
meets objectives, but loses all sense of humanity, produces carnage. Note that 
I have named no names, as Mr Putin is probably not the actual one doing this. I 
suspect he is a puppet. I want to know 'who' or 'what' is pulling his strings.  
  best wishes to you rosie    PS Sorry this is a bit long, but the writing is 
big

------ Original Message ------
From: "Philip Benjamin" <medinucl...@hotmail.com>
To: "general_the...@googlegroups.com" <general_the...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, 5 May, 22 At 15:18
Subject: RE: [Consciousness-Online] FW: Is Artificial Life Conscious? Hi, 
Rosie: Doesn’t that depend on how you define life itself? If life is defined as 
energy then almost everything is energy and life!! Then the question is what is 
energy? Nobody knows. A good beginning will be to define self-consciousness, 
i.e. to be conscious of “self”. Then if self is not real, consciousness is also 
unreal and does not belong to the realm of science. If self is real and 
invisible the only candidate for that is bio dark-matter body “twin” cocreated 
with its own chemistry (computational) at the moment of conception, made of 
dark particles of negligible mass with respect to electron. Resonance between 
the twins will be a basis for self-consciousness. Resonance is rudimentary 
recognition. Philip. From: 'Rosemary Rock-Evans' via Consciousness-Online 
<general_the...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, May 4, 2022 12:54 PM
To: general_the...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [Consciousness-Online] FW: Is Artificial Life Conscious? Dear 
Philip, 1. To be conscious does something have to have a brain? 2. To be 
conscious does it have to be capable of reproducing? rosie    

------ Original Message ------
From: "Philip Benjamin" <medinucl...@hotmail.com>
To: "general_the...@googlegroups.com" <general_the...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, 4 May, 22 At 18:43
Subject: [Consciousness-Online] FW: Is Artificial Life Conscious?

everything-list@googlegroups.com Subject: RE: Is Artificial Life Conscious?
[Philip Benjamin]
The question: "If simple creatures like worms or insects are conscious, 
(because they have brains, and evolved), then wouldn't these artificial life 
forms be conscious for the same reasons? " is irrelevant. Simple creatures 
reproduce. Will robots reproduce? Baby robots? Do they have a desire for and 
grow on the pablum of metal powder and vaseline? Simple creatures 
trans-speciated from what ? Worms evolve into worms? The oldest fossils found 
are algae and bacteria. Still the same type of bacteria and algae today!!
Philip Benjamin
Nonconformist to Marxist-Socialist pagan globalism of the WAMP. 
-----Original Message-----
From: everything-list@googlegroups.com <everything-list@googlegroups.com> . 
-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"Consciousness-Online" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
tounsubscr...@googlegroups.com">general_theory+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/general_theory/SJ0PR14MB5264FABC8C887B01461EA896A8C29%40SJ0PR14MB5264.namprd14.prod.outlook.com.

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"Consciousness-Online" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
togeneral_theory+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/general_theory/118f4b0d.dd03.18094cda37f.Webtop.89%40btinternet.com.
 -- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"Everything List" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/SJ0PR14MB5264B600BC7BA3BF569E1288A8C49%40SJ0PR14MB5264.namprd14.prod.outlook.com.

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"Everything List" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/2044910201.399335.1651972729758%40mail.yahoo.com.

Re: [Consciousness-Online] FW: Is Artificial Life Conscious?

Reply via email to