On 11/7/2024 2:25 PM, Alan Grayson wrote:
On Thursday, November 7, 2024 at 2:42:04 PM UTC-7 Brent Meeker wrote:
On 11/6/2024 1:23 AM, Alan Grayson wrote:
On Tuesday, November 5, 2024 at 11:00:30 PM UTC-7 Brent Meeker wrote:
On 11/5/2024 10:04 AM, Alan Grayson wrote:
On Tuesday, November 5, 2024 at 9:20:06 AM UTC-7 Alan
Grayson wrote:
On Tuesday, November 5, 2024 at 7:45:55 AM UTC-7 John
Clark wrote:
On Mon, Nov 4, 2024 at 8:45 PM Alan Grayson
<[email protected]> wrote:
/> Earlier you asserted that QM is local. You
were very certain. /
*I asserted no such thing!*
*I said _IF_ quantum mechanics is local and
deterministic then it can't be realistic. And Many
Worlds is local and deterministic but not realistic. *
*
*
*And I said _IF_ quantum mechanicsis realistic and
deterministic then it can't be local.And pilot wave
theory is realistic and deterministic but not local. *
*
*
*And I said _IF_ quantum mechanics is realistic and
local then it can't be deterministic. And objective
collapse is realistic and local but not deterministic. *
*
*
*And that's why the fact that Bell's inequality is
violated can't rule out any of those three ideas, I
prefer Many Worlds but time will tell if I'm right. *
*
*
*You can't be _realistic_ and _local_ and
_deterministic_ and still be compatible with the
violation of Bell's Inequality, something's gotta
give. *
*
*
*Many Worlds is my favorite as I'm sure you know,
Objective Collapse is my second favorite, my third
favorite is "other", and my fourth favorite is
pilot wave theory. But of course my favorites and
the universe's favorites may not be the same thing. *
/> But don't Bell experiments strongly suggest
instantaneous action at a distance, which
suggests that QM is NON-LOCAL? AG /
*Correlations can happen instantaneously thanks to
quantum mechanics, but thatfact doesn't enable you
to send information faster than light,so it's of no
help in trying to explain why Bell's Inequality is
violated. *
*Because information can't be sent, some people say
there is instantaneous influencing and this is
sufficient to claim QM is non-local. AG*
**
*Whereas observers cannot send information instantaneously,
apparently entangled pairs can. *
*They can have an effect, but they can't send information.*
*
*
*An effect between entangled pairs but no information sent?
Doesn't make sense. AG*
*I can only give you an argument. I can't understand it for you.
Brent*
All I am asking is what does an "effect" consist of? Many physicists
think of instantaneous action at a distance. AG
No, you're claiming it doesn't make sense to have an effect but not send
information. If you looked at the vu-graph I posted it's easy to see
that each end gets random results and the effect is only seen when they
are compared.
Brent
*
*
* There is correlation which you probably think means one
can send information, but remember QM results are random.
You can't control your end of the entangled pair and so you
can't send a message. The correlation is only noticed when
you bring two sets of measurements together. Here's what a
Bell's test experiment looks like that won the Nobel prize
for showing that QM correlation is stronger than can be
explained classically:
See how each record at A and at B are random. So no signal
can be sent.
Brent
*
*IYO, does this effect the status of QM as a non-local
theory? AG*
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