On 11/7/2024 2:28 PM, Alan Grayson wrote:
On Thursday, November 7, 2024 at 3:22:53 PM UTC-7 Brent Meeker wrote:
On 11/6/2024 12:40 PM, Alan Grayson wrote:
On Wednesday, November 6, 2024 at 11:31:03 AM UTC-7 John Clark wrote:
On Wed, Nov 6, 2024 at 4:23 AM Alan Grayson
<[email protected]> wrote:
/> An effect between entangled pairs but no information
sent? Doesn't make sense. AG/
*It's weird but it does not produce a logical contradiction.
Suppose you and I have quantum entangled coins, I stay on
earth but you get in your Spaceship and travel at nearly the
speed of light for a little over four years to Alpha
Centauri, then you slow down and start flipping your coin and
I do the same on Earth. We both write down a record of all
the heads and tails we got and both of us conclude that the
sequences we got are perfectly random. Then you get back in
your spaceship and four years later you're back home. And
now that you're back we compare our lists of "random" coin
flips and we find that the two sequences are identical, we
both got the same "random" sequence.*
*That's very weird but neither of us noticed anything was
strange until you got back, and that took over four years
because Alpha Centauriis four light years away. If we try to
use our coins discern a message by Morse code with heads
meaning a dot and tails meaning a dash it won't work because
your coin will only come up the way you want it to 50% of the
time.You could of course force your coin to come up heads or
tails, but if you did that you would destroy the quantum
entanglement because it is very delicate, and then you would
just have two ordinary unrelated coins. *
Two observers can't send information to each other because
neither knows what will come up in a coin flip if the outcome is
modeled quantum mechanically, that is irreducibly random , but
each element of a pair of entangled particles can send
information to its partner, since if it couldn't, they wouldn't
be entangled. AG
First of all you need to realize that "entangled particles" is
just shorthand. Particles aren't entangled. Some property of the
particles is entangled, e.g. spin or momentum or position. So in
Hilbert space, instead of there being two different vector
components for the spin of A and the spin of B, there is only one
vector for the spin of both A and B. So Alice can measure it and
B can measure it. But neither can change or control the
measurement. It's random.
Brent
Yes, I am aware of that. Alice and Bob can't send messages to each
other. But does either of the particles send anything to the other?
That's the issue. It's called an "effect". But an effect must have
some actual content, if it exists. AG
The "content" is they share a vector in Hilbert space.
Brent
*
*
***John K Clark See what's on my new list at Extropolis
<https://groups.google.com/g/extropolis>*
tne
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