In order to be fair, I was using Microsoft's posted prices for their software. There are always going to be lower prices out there from places like CDW and so the prices I quoted for W2K and E2K will also available at a similarly lower price from places like CDW. Rebates come and go, and again, price alone should never be the determining factor when putting in the systems that will run your entire business.
Also, the prices I quoted include 10 CALs for W2K and 5 CALS for Exchange. SBS only includes 5 CALs. Yes, you have to buy additional CALs for SBS at about $60 each. I would argue that Linux is well within the mainstream and because Unix has been around far longer than Windows, there are tons and tons and tons of software, much of it for free. And as far as Exchange-equivalency, http://networking.earthweb.com/netos/article/0,,12083_1466561,00.html. And, it is $999 with no CALs. Also, have you seen the new interfaces on some of the Linux distributions? Without hitting Ctrl-Alt-Backspace, you would almost never know that it was not Windows. That "Linux support is difficult and expensive" is an old argument that does not stand up with developments in the Linux world. I have worked with Linux since the time you had to download and compile your own kernel. And what you state was true of Linux 2 years ago, but administering Linux is no more complicated today than administering Windows networks. Is it different than Windows? Yes. More complicated? No. And I would argue that finding good, low cost Linux resources is very easy since many of the kids today that are coming out of high school and college are Linux-fluent, even more so than Windows NT or Windows 2000 fluent. Now, if by "mainstream" you mean Microsoft and IBM/Notes, then I would agree with you that they have few products for Linux, but there are applications for Linux that fill every or nearly every niche need that a company could ever want. In fact, for many of the vendors in this space, Windows versions are secondary to Unix/Linux platforms. To point: http://www.trendmicro.com/en/products/gateway/isvw/evaluate/overview.htm http://www.trendmicro.com/en/products/gateway/isem/evaluate/requirements.htm And that is just one major vendor that fills the niches that you specified. Linux comes with a built-in firewall and proxy server and there are many packages out there for extending its capabilities. SBS is cripple-ware. What other Microsoft product has a Q-article specifically devoted to product limitations? There are at least 12 major limitations listed in Q295765. Again, what possible motive can there be for setting oneself up to fail? What would any company pigeon-hole themselves into never growing above 10 employees? It does not make any business sense. > Here's my take: > > A quick peek a CDW shows SBS at $1277 > http://www.cdw.com/shop/products/default.asp?EDC=274287. Microsoft is > offering a $500 rebate if you can read the SBS sales literature and answer > 20 some-odd questions. That puts the price at $777. > > I'm not familiar with the MCSP program, so I cannot comment on that. You are > also forgetting about Exchange CALS at $70 each. > > You are correct in that growing past SBS is somewhat painful (I might argue > with the 10-20 times more expensive. Exmerging 50 mailboxes is not that > painful...), but I would maintain that if a company finds themselves > outgrowing SBS, then it should not have been put in in the first place. > > Yes, Linux is a viable option for small companies (big ones, too). It does > have some drawbacks, though. > > 1. Support. Finding a local consultant to support a Linux system is going to > be harder than finding someone to support Microsoft products. > > 2. Third-party applications. Going Linux defiantly puts a company outside > the mainstream and limits third party server applications like mail > filtering, antivirus, web surfing control, etc. > > Running a business on Linux servers is, IMHO, very a very viable option. > But, it pretty much requires a resident propeller-head to smooth over the > rough spots. Most small companies (where SBS is targeted) just can't afford > a full-time system admin. They would much rather farm it out to a > consultant. > > Let's not forget that Exchange is more than email as well. There's nothing > in the open source arena (that I know of) that can provide the same > functionality that Exchange provides. > > I'll conclude stating that IMHO, SBS is an excellent value when applied in > the appropriate environment - that is a small company (5-15 employees) > needing at least file-sharing and Exchange and with no resident system > admin. > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Greg Deckler [mailto:greg@;infonition.com] > Sent: Tuesday, November 05, 2002 6:55 PM > To: Exchange Discussions > Subject: RE: Moving E2k storage group to new Server > > > Thought long and hard about letting this go, but where is the fun in that? > > First, to answer the migration piece of this. The only option I can think of > at this time would be to treat the SBS Exchange system as a foreign mail > system, meaning export and import mailbox data to migrate. Migration costs > will be 10-20 times what it would be to simply put another server in place > and move users. But, if is your only option... > > Now on to the fun... > > SBS License: $1,499.00 (5 clients) > > Real W2K Server license: $1,199.00 (10 clients) > E2K Standard Edition: $1,299.00 (can always be upgraded to Enterprise if > needed) > > Now, realistically, if you are a small little shop, this is all the > Microsoft products that you need and so for 1.67 times the amount you > eliminate all of the limitations of SBS and have actual, real products > versus cripple-ware. > > But what about ISA? Don't need it. Go get a Linksys box for $100 for your > firewall and it is wide open outbound. > > But what about SQL Server? IF you need it, then it's $1,499.00. Otherwise, > you don't need it. > > If you are a small business, you can get cripple-ware for $1.5K or actual > software to run your business for $2-4K. Under the first scenario you are > setting yourself up for failure and under the second, you have invested just > a little more money but have primed your business for growth. > > And if you are such a cash-strapped business that you cannot afford the > extra grand or two, then you should probably be looking at free software. > Put a Linux box up, done. It's cost $0.00. > > And, just for fun, 2 MCP exams, ~$250 and an MCSP license ~$2000.00. So > again, for just a few extra (hundreds) of dollars you get lots and lots and > lots of actual software versus cripple-ware. > > So where is the business case for SBS? There isn't one. It is for > closed-minded, all I know is Microsoft, lazy people that do not think far > enough ahead to keep them from running into closed doors. Installing SBS is > setting yourself up for failure, period. I have seen it time and time again. > It is Microsoft cripple-ware, plain and simple. You get what you pay for and > you get what you deserve when you don't plan ahead. > > I am more than willing to admit I am wrong, so show me a business case where > SBS is the RIGHT solution. And by that, I do not mean the lowest cost > solution, because Linux has that one well in hand. I mean, when all the pros > and cons are analyzed, that SBS is the winner. I honestly have never > encountered it. > > > > You know what they say: opinions are like, well never mind... > > > > Personally, I think SBS is a fantastic product, provided you keep it's > > limitations in mind up front. Yes, it would be a pain to upgrade, but > > my guess is that the vast majority of SBS installations would never > > face that task. > > > > Most small companies (10-15 employees) could never afford to buy > > Win2k, E2K, and ISA server, let alone SQLServer. SBS gives them all > > this for the price of Win2K server alone! > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Greg Deckler [mailto:greg@;infonition.com] > > Sent: Tuesday, November 05, 2002 1:22 PM > > To: Exchange Discussions > > Subject: Re: Moving E2k storage group to new Server > > > > > > Well, the easiest way to do this is to install another E2K server and > > simply move the mailboxes to the new server. Now, the only thing that > > might throw a wrench into this for you is running sbs2k. And, I have > > repeatedly stated this and let me go on record as stating that SBS is > > a terrible product that should never be installed anywhere in the > > entire world because of the serious limitations that it imposes on > > organizations. This is a perfect example as to why an organization > > should NEVER install SBS. And if there are any companies out there > > that have consultants recommending SBS, fire them immediately and get > > somebody competant. > > > > One of the big problems with SBS is that it uses the Standard Edition > > of Microsoft Exchange, which has the nasty limitation of not being > > able to support multiple Exchange servers. > > > > From Microsoft docs: > > "Exchange 2000 on a Small Business Server installation is restricted > > from being part of a larger Exchange server organization. Because > > Small Business Server 2000 is installed as the root of the Active > > Directory forest, you cannot install the Exchange 2000 component into > > an existing organization." > > > > Also from Microsoft docs: > > "Full installation of Windows 2000 is required. It is not possible to > > upgrade Microsoft BackOffice Small Business Server to the Windows 2000 > > operating system; however, if your hardware meets the system > > requirements > > (http://www.microsoft.com/windows2000/advancedserver/evaluation/sysreqs/) > > for Windows 2000, you can install the full product. > > > > The current plan for the next release of Small Business Server is to > > base the product on the Windows 2000 operating system. For more > > information about Small Business Server, see the Small Business Server > > Web site (http://www.microsoft.com/smallbusinessserver/default.htm)." > > > > What this means in a nutshell is that I don't have a solution for you. > > I have searched Technet and have not been able to find an acceptable > > upgrade path from SBS to anything useable. Essentially, since you are > > running SBS, you cannot install a new E2K server into the organization > > and simply move the user mailboxes. And, in all honesty, I have not > > found an acceptable way to upgrade SBS to W2K enterprise. > > > > If anyone has a solution out there for upgrading SBS to enterprise > > versions, I'd love to see it. There HAS to be a way, Microsoft could > > not have been THAT bone-headed. On the other hand, they released SBS > > so I guess I wouldn't put anything past them. > > > > One thing you might try is backing up your stores, installing a new > > non-SBS server with full W2K and E2K and restoring to that server. > > > > Avoid SBS like the plague, it is a terrible, terrible product and > > Microsoft, in good conscience, should NEVER have released it upon an > > unsuspecting public. > > > > > Exchange is working fine on the server its just that the raid set on > > > this dodgy ibm server keeps going critical after a reboot(keep getting > > > the runaround from ibm) and we want the customer to purchase a better > > > server but there is a lot of mail stored on it and i was just > > > wondering how easy/hard would it be to move the mail to another > > > server. Also is their any repercussions moving mail from sbs2k to a > > > win2k o/s. > > > > > > Thanks > > > > > > Damian. > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm > > Archives: http://www.swynk.com/sitesearch/search.asp > > To unsubscribe: mailto:leave-exchange@;ls.swynk.com > > Exchange List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > _________________________________________________________________ > List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm > Archives: http://www.swynk.com/sitesearch/search.asp > To unsubscribe: mailto:leave-exchange@;ls.swynk.com > Exchange List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] _________________________________________________________________ List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm Archives: http://www.swynk.com/sitesearch/search.asp To unsubscribe: mailto:leave-exchange@;ls.swynk.com Exchange List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
