If you shake more then twice, you're just playing with yourself -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of John Parker Sent: Monday, December 22, 2003 2:56 PM To: Exchange Discussions Subject: RE: Greg's Utterly Fascinating Views on Ethics
I have to pee. John Parker, MCSE IS Admin. Senior Technical Specialist Alpha Display Systems. Alpha Video 7711 Computer Ave. Edina, MN. 55435 952-896-9898 Local 800-388-0008 Watts 952-896-9899 Fax 612-804-8769 Cell 952-841-3327 Direct [EMAIL PROTECTED] "Be excellent to each other" ---End of Line--- -----Original Message----- From: Jim Helfer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, December 22, 2003 4:45 PM To: Exchange Discussions Subject: RE: Greg's Utterly Fascinating Views on Ethics "The Lurkers Support Me in E-mail!" I knew it was coming, and here it is at last! Another piece of the kook puzzle falls into place. I am so happy. We are still a few steps away from the "Every who is against me is just as bad as Hitler" gambit, but we are surely circling that drain. Jim H -----Original Message----- From: Greg Deckler [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, December 22, 2003 1:53 PM To: Exchange Discussions Subject: RE: Greg's Utterly Fascinating Views on Ethics Actually, I have had plenty of people step forward, privately and support me. But they don't want to get involved in the list discussion. > I don't need to. I'm not the one spouting ridiculous opinions about ethics. > It's clear that you've lost the argument when you can't prove your > case, and To whom is it clear? Noone has EVER proven wrong that accepting direct gifts from vendors when you are in an industry that provides services to clients and customers for that vendor that it is NOT a conflict of interest. > instead challenge me to prove you wrong. Since you can't prove your > assertion, it is not a fact, and therefore it is an opinion. Since > your opinion is yours alone (noone else has stepped forward to agree > with you) then you have a very small minority opinion. An opinion, > I'm afraid to have to explain to you, are only as important as the > stature and number of those who hold it. > > So, it would seem that my position prevails, and your opinion is marginal. > Unless you can prove the contrary, you have no basis for arguing that > there is an ethical problem with the MVP program. > > Ed Crowley MCSE+Internet MVP > Freelance E-Mail Philosopher > Protecting the world from PSTs and Bricked Backups!T > > -----Original Message----- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Greg Deckler > Sent: Monday, December 22, 2003 10:32 AM > To: Exchange Discussions > Subject: RE: Greg's Utterly Fascinating Views on Ethics > > OK, I can be childish as well. > > You PROVE it. Prove to me that accepting gifts from vendors and then > turning around to clients and providing information and services about > and from those vendors is NOT a real or perceived conflict of interest. > > You prove that false. > > > Prove it. It is your opinion, not a fact. Everything you cite is > > made up in your own mind. > > > > Again, you are mixing up fact and opinion. What you believe is not > > necessarily what is true. That appears to be especially true in > > that special place known as Deckler-Land. > > > > By the way, surrounding your claimed invitation to be an MVP, who > > invited you and when? I don't recall you ever offering much > > positive peer support in the forums, but I do recall that you were > > considered to be a heckler way back before Exchange was even a > > product with a SKU. I find it hard to believe that you would ever > > have been welcomed as an MVP. Care to prove this assertion as well? > > > > Ed Crowley MCSE+Internet MVP > > Freelance E-Mail Philosopher > > Protecting the world from PSTs and Bricked Backups!T > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Greg > > Deckler > > Sent: Monday, December 22, 2003 10:10 AM > > To: Exchange Discussions > > Subject: RE: Greg's Utterly Fascinating Views on Ethics > > > > You can be offended all you want, it does not change the FACT that > > accepting a direct gift from a vendor creates an obvious problem > > with basic conflict of interest rules. I don't make these rules up > > all I have stated is that a real or perceived conflict exists. If > > the argument held no water, then there would be no reason to be offended. > > > > > It's not exactly a gift. It's a recognition for a contribution > pefrormed. > > > There are, admittedly, strings attached, although there are none > > > that I consider to be ethical issues. > > > > > > I completely resent your entire assertion that I am somehow > > > unethical because I accept the title and gifts associated with > > > being an MVP. I will defend my standards of ethics against > > > anyone's, including your poorly defined and indefensible set. In > > > fact, I was nearly fired from my current job because I defended > > > ethical behavior, but the system worked and I am still here. > > > (This was completely unrelated to anything surrounding Microsoft > > > or MVP.) > > > > > > So, let's get back to the real argument. Please either (1) prove > > > how being an MVP is unethical, or (2) go away and let this thread > > > rest. I tire of your repeated extrapolations, digressions, and > > > less-than-brilliant treatises. > > > > > > Ed Crowley MCSE+Internet MVP > > > Freelance E-Mail Philosopher > > > Protecting the world from PSTs and Bricked Backups!T > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Greg > > > Deckler > > > Sent: Monday, December 22, 2003 9:51 AM > > > To: Exchange Discussions > > > Subject: RE: Greg's Utterly Fascinating Views on Ethics > > > > > > The flaw here is that that "Cisco Certified" has clearly defined > > > things that must be met and requires a payment to the vendor to > > > achieve. You must PAY to get the required material. You must PAY > > > to take the tests. You must PAY for the certification. > > > > > > MVP is a gift. There are no explicit requirements and there is no > > > exchange of currency. > > > > > > This is the CLEAR difference between certifications and gifts like MVP. > > > > > > > Titles based on criteria that has been successfully met, as in > > > > MVP or Cisco Certified, etc., has no ethical issues. It is an > > > > earned title that denotes an area of expertise. It is up to > > > > those who view the title to determine if the criteria for > > > > getting the title warrants a level of trust and respect. > > > > > > > > Personal gifts from vendors that you make purchasing decisions > > > > regarding is unethical. > > > > > > > > Rules of ethics are necessary in this business. > > > > > > > > Ceaselessly arguing in order to have the last word is poor use > > > > of brain power, poor use of this list and poor use of ethics. > > > > Anyone whose priority is to *always* win the "fight" must > > > > sacrifice the truth and good judgment, thereby violating basic ethics. > > > > > > > > Just another opinion :-) > > > > > > > > Best Regards,=20 > > > > > > > > Dan Bartley > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: Greg Deckler [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > Sent: Monday, December 22, 2003 12:24 > > > > To: Exchange Discussions > > > > Subject: RE: Greg's Utterly Fascinating Views on Ethics > > > > > > > > I got to the first paragraph in your post and pretty much quit > > > > reading.=20 > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm > > > Web Interface: > > > http://intm-dl.sparklist.com/cgi-bin/lyris.pl?enter=exchange&text_ > > > mo > > > de > > > =&lang > > > =english > > > To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > Exchange List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm > > Web Interface: > > http://intm-dl.sparklist.com/cgi-bin/lyris.pl?enter=exchange&text_mo > > de > > =&lang > > =english > > To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Exchange List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > _________________________________________________________________ > List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm > Web Interface: > http://intm-dl.sparklist.com/cgi-bin/lyris.pl?enter=exchange&text_mode > =&lang > =english > To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Exchange List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] _________________________________________________________________ List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm Web Interface: http://intm-dl.sparklist.com/cgi-bin/lyris.pl?enter=exchange&text_mode=&lang =english To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Exchange List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] _________________________________________________________________ List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm Web Interface: http://intm-dl.sparklist.com/cgi-bin/lyris.pl?enter=exchange&text_mode=&lang =english To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Exchange List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] _________________________________________________________________ List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm Web Interface: http://intm-dl.sparklist.com/cgi-bin/lyris.pl?enter=exchange&text_mode=&lang =english To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Exchange List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] _________________________________________________________________ List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm Web Interface: http://intm-dl.sparklist.com/cgi-bin/lyris.pl?enter=exchange&text_mode=&lang=english To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Exchange List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
