On Friday 17 May 2002 06:29 pm, you wrote: > Randy Kramer wrote: > > BTW: No offense intended, but this strikes me as close to a newbie level > > question (unless the details that you haven't provided so far indicate > > otherwise). What made you post it on "expert"? Again, no offense, and > > I don't consider myself an expert, but I usually try to post my > > questions to what I think is the more appropriate list, and if that was > > newbie, "escalate" it to expert only if I don't get a satisfactory > > response on newbie. Seems to me that was the intent of having a newbie > > and an expert list, and probably helps to avoid traffic for experts that > > don't want to be bothered with newbie level questions. (There are very > > expert people who lurk on the newbie list and answer questions.) If I > > misunderstand the reason for the two lists, maybe one of the list > > veterans can provide a different insight? > > Randy, > > Your comments are most germane, and tastefully inserted as an addendum > in your reply. Unfortunately, the distinction you delineated between > newbie and expert list has, over the few years I have been here, pretty > much been loss. There are a number of reasons for this to occur. One > reason would simply be the subjective nature of differentiating between > a "newbie" problem and what constitutes an "expert" problem. I have said > it here before, and I'll say it again: I would humbly estimate that > about 60 to 70 percent of the postings on this list are within the > "newbie" range. > > If you or others have a subscription to other UNIX type lists, you will > readily see how this situation is handled. There are usually a few "list > nazis" who do not hesitate to make the newbie feel very uncomfortable > about posting a problem that would have been easily solved by a RTFM or > STFW. > > Because the Mandrake expert list is for Mandrake Linux solutions, I > believe it will always be as it is: a "kinder, gentler" sort of list. > And, as such, you might as well acclimate yourself to the reality that > this list is really just an extension to the newbie list... > > I hope I have engendered some thoughts on this issues, and hopefully we > might see some thoughtful responses... > > Dr John, > The Night Tripper
My analysis: Let's assume that I am an absolute newbie, that I've heard these lists are a very useful resource, so I decide to subscribe. I go to the Mandrake Linux subscription page (www.linux-mandrake.com/en/flists.php3) where I learn that the distinction between the two lists is the experience of the subscribers, not the nature of the post. Given the choice between people just as dumb as I am and those who really know their stuff, guess which one I'm apt to choose? Right: It's the expert list for me, especially if I'm a Type A kind of guy. (Yeah, I know now that there are lots of genuine wizards on the newbie list, but that's something I learned after I had subscribed and had a chance to see how good some of these people are.) An obvious alternative, of course, would be to segregate the lists on the basis of subject, e.g. Installation, Networking, Security, Hardware, Configuration, etc. Red Hat and the Mandrake Forum do this, and I think Suse also does it. I, for one, do not like it. Yes, it might make it easier to organize my inbox, but it would be at the expense of following multiple threads on the same topic (my configuration question is your hardware question), cross-posting (I need an answer NOW, dammit, so I'll ask everyone) and searching multiple archives for stuff I forgot to save. (Yeah, I know, Google is my friend. Sometimes, though, it's easier to just browse through a list.) My choice: Leave things just like they are. (Ain't broke ==> don't fix it). You've got to stretch to find anything resembling list-Nazism here, flames are few and far between, RTFM's and STFW's almost non-existent -- we're a pretty tolerant community. Yeah, we tend to wander off of topic sometimes (more so on the newbie list), there's the odd HTML posting, inappropriate attachments happen, sometimes we forget that not everyone has unlimited flat rate web access, and maybe some of the postings are to the wrong list, but this is about as good as it gets, and that's damn good. For those of you who only subscribe to the expert list: There's been some discussion on the newbie list about a separate list for off-topic stuff, but I don't think that's going to work, since most OT stuff seems to be forks from legitimate threads. -- cmg
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