--- Rick Archer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
snip
Tony Parsons said:
>
> In Mr. Sutphen's response to the "Divine
> Misconception", we have a
> fine example of someone who has claimed something
> called "personal
> enlightenment". Liberation is impersonal and
> absolutely beyond states
> of any kind. If Mr. Sutphen believes there is a
> separate individual
> with free will to choose to "have to use a technique
> that works
> directly with the ego" then he inevitably believes
> in the reality of
> subject and object.
Yes, of course there is a "reality of the subject
and object" within the phenomenological context of
waking state prior to liberation. Within the
phenomenological context of liberation, they don't
exist. What I'm critiquing is the possible
misapprehension of a phenomenological description of
liberation as a method or means to achieve such
liberation. Within waking state there is dualism. This
is the phenomenological reality. Teachings function
within the context of this dualism to transcend the
dualism. Dualistic teaching are useful fictions that
stop serving a purpose once liberation is realized. Of
course there is no personal enlightenment. But when
there is a subject or personal self, as there is in
waking state prior to liberation, enlightenment is
understood in terms of the value such a condition will
have for "me." It is impossible to understand it any
other way. So one engages in a sadhana to bring about
liberation. It's all "me, me, me." If the sadhana is
effective it finally transcends itself and then the
fiction of "me" is rather obvious. But the starting
point for liberation is ignorance. And in this
ignorance is an individual me that strives to become
liberated. It is only after liberation that the
fiction of "me" and any "effort of me" is clearly seen
as absurdly false.
That being said, I believe that there are
thousands of people within the TM community that have
been "techniqueing" for 20 to 40 years that are not
liberated. No more meditation or any technique or
yagya or proper vastu will bring about liberation.
They are "stuck" in sattva. For these people a final
discrimination between Self and not-Self is needed and
the non-dual teachings of Mr. Parsons can be
profoundly useful for such people. It is for the ones
just starting a sadhana that non-dual teachings can
create quite a bit of cofusion. For them the useful
fiction of the dualistic teaching, I believe, will be
more effective.
-Peter
>
> This is pure dualism.
>
> Equally, the article (`Divine Misconception') is not
> suggesting that
> there are "people who can do absolutely nothing" for
> "doing nothing"
> is just another doing within the hypnotic dream.
> Conceptual
> understanding is totally irrelevant to liberation.
>
>
> Tony Parsons
>
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter Sutphen
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > In response to the article: Knowledge is different
> in
> > different states of consciousness. The dharma of
> one
> > state is not the dharma of another. If there's an
> > experiential/phenomenological ego, then you better
> > have a technique/teaching that works directly with
> the
> > ego to transcend the limitations of the ego. For
> > example, TM. "You" think the mantra. The problem
> with
> > these types of articles is that it can lead to
> people
> > with an ego doing absolutely nothing because they
> > conceptually understand there is no ego. But this
> is
> > not their direct experience. There's a confound of
> > experience and understanding which leads to
> adharmic
> > behavior and another loop around on the wheel of
> > samsara.
> > -Peter
> >
> > --- FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Hello,
> > >
> > > This email message is a notification to let you
> know
> > > that
> > > a file has been uploaded to the Files area of
> the
> > > FairfieldLife
> > > group.
> > >
> > > File : /Neo-Advaita Teachers/The Divine
> > > Misconception.pdf
> > > Uploaded by : rick_archer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > Description : The Divine Misconception, by
> Tony
> > > Parsons
> > >
> > > You can access this file at the URL:
> > >
> >
>
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/files/Neo-Advaita%20Teachers/The%20Divine%20Misconception.pdf
> > >
> > >
> > > To learn more about file sharing for your group,
> > > please visit:
> > > http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > >
> > > rick_archer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > To subscribe, send a message to:
> > > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > >
> > > Or go to:
> > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/
> > > and click 'Join This Group!'
> > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > >
> > > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > __________________________________
> > Do you Yahoo!?
> > Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources
> site!
> > http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/
>
>
>
>
>
> To subscribe, send a message to:
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> Or go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/
> and click 'Join This Group!'
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>
>
>
>
>
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Make Yahoo! your home page
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
To subscribe, send a message to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Or go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/
and click 'Join This Group!'
Yahoo! Groups Links
<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/
<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
