--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "ruthsimplicity" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <jstein@> wrote: > > > > > So you think it's a religious practice even if > > you never end up waving candles to Shiva or > > Mother Divine? > > > > Don't be ridiculous.
Ruth, I believe TM becomes a religion for those who don't have one or are dissatisfied with the ones they are now practicing. But for those who are satisfied with their religion, the TM principles can fit in with those they already believe in. IMO, much of what MMY is saying can already be found in other wisdom books such as the Talmud, the Christian Bible or the Koran. Nonetheless, there are some who are fundamentalists in their beliefs whether it be atheism or religions. Then, they would be strong critics of TM movement. If you stick around long enough, you can identify who they are in this forum. > I am taking a risk as a new person here in joining this discussion > because clearly the religion/science/philosophy issues surrounding TM > are hot button issues and I did say that I had no intention of insulting > anyone. > > A person could decide that meditation techniques may or may not be > religious depending upon why the technique is practiced. For example, > if a person learned TM because they believed there was sufficient > evidence that TM is relaxing and might lower their BP, and they had no > other motivation, then the technique is not a religious practice for > them. The technique as a relaxation technique may or may not be based > on good science. But, for them, it is not religious. > However, that same person may later learn information about the history > of the technique, the TM movement, or the initiation ceremony that is > troubling to them and their religious beliefs. As a result, they may > chose to stop the practice. Others will have no problem with what they > learn about the movement and may or may not continue using the technique > as a secular relaxation technique. I would be very interested in data > showing how many such people continue and how many drop the practice. > AFAIK, no such data exists. > > Another student may learn TM in order to reach higher states of > consciousness or to become enlightened. It is still the same technique, > but the motivations are different. The motivations are essentially > religious, a search for some ultimate reality. When I hear about > meditation experiences, the descriptions have a religious flavor, like > witnessing, feelings of awe, and the like. Just like I declined to > discuss whether TM is an effective relaxation technique, I decline to > discuss whether it is an effective technique in the search for an > ultimate reality or enlightenment. Or whether religious experiences > people have are real or brain chemicals or both. > > > The more sensitive issue is what is the TM movement. Wikipedia > contributors start the discussion of religion by stating: > > "A religion is a set of common beliefs and practices generally held by a > group of people, often codified as prayer > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prayer> , ritual > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ritual> , and religious law > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_law> . Religion also encompasses > ancestral or cultural traditions > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tradition> , writings, history, and > mythology <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mythology> , as well as personal > faith <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faith> and mystic experience > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mysticism> .The term "religion" refers to > both the personal practices related to communal faith and to group > rituals and communication stemming from shared conviction." > > and > > "Religion is often described as a communal system for the coherence > ofbelief focusing on a system of thought, unseen being, person, > orobject, that is considered to be supernatural > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supernatural> , sacred, divine > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Divinity> , or of the highest truth > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Truth> . Moral codes > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moral_code> , practices, values, > institutions, tradition, rituals, and scriptures > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scripture> are often traditionally > associated with the core belief, and these may have some overlap with > concepts in secular philosophy <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophy> > . Religion is also often described as a "way of life > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Way_of_life> "." > > Merriam Webster's definition of religion includes "a cause, principle, > or system of beliefs held to with ardor and faith." > > > > The "movement" certainly has religious aspects. The faith in the > Maharishi and his pronouncements. The reported mystical experiences. > The purposes of the TM siddhis and the underlying faith of many > practitioners in the effectiveness of such techniques. The parusha and > the mother divine. The vedic traditions, writings, history and > mythology. The search for higher states of consciousness or > enlightenment. The astrology components. The architectural rules. The > way of life promoted by the movement. > > Of course, like all religions, you have the very faithful, and the not > so faithful. > > I do not think it is ridiculous for people to become irritated at the TM > movement. It is disingenuous for the organization to protest that TM is > not a religion. Yes, people can practice the simple meditation > technique for reasons unrelated to religion. But looking from the > outside in, the movement sure looks like a religion, albeit a new > religion, and the faithful hope for experiences I and many others would > define as religious. > > > > > Ruth > > > > > > > >