Last time I read an animal-language study it was about dolphins and how they'd learned over a hundred or so human words. It was also determined that they clearly have a language and a sense of self. They refer to each other by name, they gossip, and they recognize themselves and each other in mirrors and in videos. What struck me most forcefully in that study was the fact that in all the time the researchers had been working with these dolphins, they did not learn a single dolphin word, whereas the dolphins learned ours. a
--- hugheshugo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, > "endlessrainintoapapercup" > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "hugheshugo" > > <richardhughes103@> wrote: > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, > "endlessrainintoapapercup" > > > <endlessrainintoapapercup@> wrote: > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, > "hugheshugo" > > > <richardhughes103@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I like to be optimistic and think there is > millions of > planets > > > with > > > > > life out there but I wouldn't be surprised > if we were the > only > > > > > intelligent creatures, it really is a fluke > that we got this > > > smart. > > > > > > > > > > > > I realize that "intelligence" is a relative > judgment, > > > > but I have to say that I don't think we're so > smart. > > > > We say that we are, but we're entirely biased. > > > > > It doesn't seem very smart to destroy the > planet > > > > that gives us life...or to be unable to get > along > > > > without destroying each other. > > > > > > You're quite right, we judge intelligence only > against other life > but > > > compared to other animals we're streets ahead, > but I think people > > > only really relate and identify with small > groups, after all we > spent > > > 99% of our eveolution living in small tribes. > Hence all the wars > now. > > > > > > A big mistake people make about evolution is > that we are > > > somehow "finished", all religions tell us how > important we are > and > > > how we are made in gods image but that's just > our vanity, really > we > > > are just a bodge-up of compromises on a journey > to a destination > we > > > can't even guess at. I'm guilty of feeling like > I'm some sort of > > > important life-form but I know I'm not really, > in a few million > > > years (or a few hundred if we're not careful) > we'll be gone, just > a > > > temporary blip in the history of the world. It's > important to > keep it > > > in perspective. > > > > > > But then, there is something different about us. > Abstract thought > is > > > the key, I think. And that is probably due to > having such > advanced > > > speech capapbilities compared to other apes. > It's all down to the > > > descended larynx. > > > > > > There actually is research data now that > > supports abstract reasoning in other life > > forms, even in those with brains the size > > of a grain of sand. Also the acknowledgement > > of emotion. Even Darwin said the difference > > between our mental capacities and those > > of other animals was a matter of degree > > and not kind. A good book that addresses > > this issue and refers to research is > > "Intelligence in Nature: An Inquiry into > > Knowledge" by Jeremy Narby. > > > > Sounds interesting, I shall check out the book. I > would never deny > complex emotion in other animals as it's a primitive > way of letting > yourself know if things are going well. I'm happy to > consider myself > an ape, but I'm aware there are differences between > us and chimps, I > just don't know if there are more similarities > between us. I'll be > interested to hear of the extent of chimp reasoning, > I've read a lot > of things where chimps have learned sign language > but it's confused > as to whether they are just learning behaviour and > getting a reward > at the end. I think that to be charitable they have > a limited > potential (compared to us) but then maybe it shows > how smart they are > that they can fit what must be for them an alien > idea into their > world. > > To me abstract reasoning is the ability to take > oneself out of the > moment and consider different options, I would have > thought that > would require conceptual thought. I don't know of > anything else that > can do that, but then perhaps most thinking is > pre-verbal and we just > justify it with reason later. So maybe other animals > do this but to a > lesser degree. But that is the key difference. > > Love Darwin though I do, there is still one thing > humans *uniquely* > have and that is an exoculture, that is we store > information outside > ourselves, this is maybe the real reason we are so > different as > knowledge beyond what any one person can work out > can be accumulate d > and be improved on. Hence the complex culture and > technology. > > If this guy has some new ideas on all this I'm sure > gonna be > interested to find out. > > > > > > > > > > > Destroying the planet sure aint smart but > nuclear power is, > whether > > > we blow ourselves up or not is more down to > values. Maybe the > need to > > > survive will one day outweigh the love of money > and we can start > > > saving the world. Cosmically speaking it doesn't > matter that we > are > > > causing a massive extiction at the moment, but > it seems painfully > sad > > > to me that we have so little respect and so many > amazing life > forms > > > are now gone forever, and the fact it's all > getting destroyed for > the > > > sake of cars, cheeseburgers, pepsi and > cigarettes drives me wild. > > > Maybe it would be better if we died out real > soon. > > > > Apparently there are others who agree, and > > who think it would be best if humans > > experienced a 100% extinction event. I'd > > rather survive, but it is hard to see the > > heedless destruction and lack of sensitivity > > toward all life forms and Mother Earth. > > > > > > > > > > It's funny how I always say "we" like I know how > a nuclear power > > > station works when I can barely tune bicycle > gears ;-) > > > > > > > > > > > Just think of the string of events that all > had to happen to > lead > > > to > > > > > us being the only animals in the history of > earth === message truncated === Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
