--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, ruthsimplicity <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <jstein@> wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, ruthsimplicity <no_reply@> > > wrote: > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <jstein@> wrote: > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, ruthsimplicity <no_reply@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <jstein@> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, ruthsimplicity > > <no_reply@> > > > > > > wrote: > > > > > > <snip> > > > > > > > I understand this well enough. But to expand that concept > > > > > > > to the concept of unstressing resulting from meditation is > > > > > > > unwarranted in my mind. Did anyone other than MMY promote > > > > > > > the unstressing concept? > > > > > > > > > > > > It's pretty well known that some people have > > > > > > "negative side effects" from psychotherapy; > > > > > > at a certain point, their symptoms may get > > > > > > worse. > > > > > > > > > > > > To the therapist, this may actually be a sign > > > > > > that "something good is happening," that the > > > > > > patient's condition is improving. In many cases > > > > > > the patient wants to quit therapy, thinking it > > > > > > isn't helping, and the therapist has to convince > > > > > > them to stick with it, because they're finally > > > > > > getting to the core of their problems. > > > > > > > > > > > > Typically, if the patient does stay in therapy, > > > > > > while they may feel awful for a while, ultimately > > > > > > they come out the other side, having finally > > > > > > worked through their emotional difficulties. > > > > > > > > > > Could be. Or it could be the ebb and flow of a troubled > > > > > person's emotions. They get upset, they feel better > > > > > afterwards. Or they get upset, and don't feel better > > > > > afterwards. For example, angry people who vent get angrier. > > > > > > > > Yeah, that isn't what I'm talking about. A decent > > > > therapist can tell the difference. > > > > > > > > > I don't much believe in catharsis in therapy, the process > > > > > of cleansing or purification. I also question catharsis > > > > > or unstressing in TM. > > > > > > > > I wouldn't call TM's unstressing catharsis. In any > > > > case, your belief about the lack of value of catharsis > > > > in therapy doesn't affect the point I'm making, that > > > > a patient's mental/emotional state may get worse before > > > > it gets better, and that this may be an integral part > > > > of the healing process. All I'm saying is that this > > > > notion isn't unique to MMY. > > > > > > > But isn't the difference that in TM the unstressing is > > > considered a positive, part of the purification process? > > > > How is it different on that score? In psychotherapy, > > it's sometimes the case that the patient feeling worse > > is viewed (by the therapist) as "something good is > > happening," as I said to start with. > > > > > That is why I mentioned catharsis which is also considered > > > a purification process, though the process is entirely > > > different from TM. > > > > > > The feeling worse before you get better seems like a > > > different concept, not a concept of purification but > > > just a troubled person feeling troubling emotions; not > > > being purified at all, not getting rid of bad stuff. > > > > Maybe an example of what I'm talking about would help. > > Let's say the patient seeks therapy for feelings of > > anxiety, not disabling but problematic in daily life. > > At a certain point, the patient begins to have really > > severe panic attacks and tells the therapist he's > > going to leave therapy because it's obviously making > > him worse, not better. > > > > The therapist notes that the panic attacks began right > > around the time they were discussing the patient's > > family life growing up, although the patient was > > describing his childhood as happy and untroubled. > > > > The therapist suspects that the patient isn't > > remembering, or isn't acknowledging, some serious > > trauma. She manages to convince the patient to stick > > it out for a while. In the course of further > > exploration of the patient's childhood, the patient > > suddenly recollects a series of episodes of sexual > > abuse by a family friend. > > > > Now that it's out in the open, the therapist can > > help the patient deal with the trauma, which had been > > responsible for the generalized anxiety that led the > > patient to seek treatment. The panic attacks had begun > > to occur as the barriers the patient had put up to > > this recollection started to break down under the > > therapist's probing. > > > > That's sort of a cartoon version, but it's the general > > idea. Feeling worse is a sign, to the therapist, that > > there's bad stuff to be dealt with, but it can't be > > dealt with if the patient leaves therapy; the patient > > has to be able, with the therapist's support, to > > tolerate feeling worse until the bad stuff is brought > > to light. > > > > Theoretically, in the TM context, the stress of the > > sexual-abuse trauma, as it is released via meditation, > > might be felt as generalized anxiety or even panic > > attacks. The supposed advantage of TM is that there's > > no need to bring the trauma to conscious memory; the > > stress associated with it is released without the > > person ever knowing what it was connected to. The > > person may feel rotten for a while, but once all the > > stress has been released, the trauma no longer has any > > negative effects on the person's life. > > > > It seems to me the two processes are pretty closely > > parallel with regard to the concept of getting worse > > before one gets better, even though the specifics of > > the processes are different. > > > > (TM critics please note the words "theoretically" and > > "supposedly" in my above description of the TM process. > > Ruth was asking about the *concept* of unstressing, > > and that's what I was addressing. Whether the TM version > > is valid, I couldn't say, but I've certainly heard many > > individual stories about TMers having gone through very > > rough patches and coming out the other side with their > > mental/emotional state much improved.) > > > > > I see what you are saying and I understand the distress someone might > feel when discussing bad stuff in their life and thinking they may > leave therapy as a result. So yes, sometimes saying something > forbidden out loud can be a positive step. But it isn't always good > to revisit the bad stuff. The bad feelings may be reinforced. There > is some indication that getting people to relive the bad stuff, > especially right after it happened, can be counter productive. In > fact, pushing it too hard can lead people to remember things as being > worse than what the events actually were. > > > Instead, the idea is to help people have different reactions to > stressors rather than feeling distress. > > Therapy at best is a learning process rather than a purification > process, so I don't think of bad feelings during therapy as unstressing. >
I meant to add that I don't disagree with your main point: "that a patient's mental/emotional state may get worse before it gets better, and that this may be an integral part of the healing process. All I'm saying is that this notion isn't unique to MMY." I am just adding my thoughts that it seems different than the concept of unstressing.
