---Category errors - below. TM is obviously not to be compared to Hollywood starts (apples and bananas). By "TM" clarify - such as "TM in context of the puja and body of knowledge that goes along with it" since TM just by itself is obviously not a religion. Not many people are saying it is. (since - obviously per MMY's intention, one can extract TM from the religious matrix and practice it as an athiest or as a technique independent of one's religion. Yes, veneration of a "god" is religion; and in the braodest sense, one's Guru. The TM puja venerates Brahma, Vishnu, and Shiva. Can't get any more religious than that! TM + puja + knowledge can be considered a "Dharmic" package within Hinduism. Much of Christianity is dualist dogma based on acceptance and belief; thus both are religious in nature but vastly different, like comparing rodents and elephants. (but both may have a common ancestor). You say practice and ideology are vastly different. Very true. There's plenty of room under the umbrella topic of religion to incorporate vastly different ideologies and practices. We haven't even scratched the surface of the Pleidian religions!
You say TM is "leaving activity". Fine we can setup a flow chart as follows: A. Religions: a. Dharmic religions, or non-dualist approaches that have Enlightenment as the goal (Cf. the teachings of the Buddha). b. Those dualist religions which bind one to form, ideas, dogmas and practices in and of themselves; e.g. "accepting Jesus as one's Savior" for example (in the orthodox sense), is all about remission of "sins", not Enlightenment. So regardless of the direction or intention of religion, the properties common to both are adequate to fit into the wide umbrella as defined in wiki and various dictionaries. In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "amritasyaputra" <amritasyapu...@...> wrote: > > No, it is not religious. > Veneration of a person or a Master is not a religious activity. > Unless, of course, you consider veneration of Hollywood stars as > religious. > > Moreover, TM cannot be a religion if Christianity is considered to be > one!!! > > Although there might be some similarities, their practice and > ideology is completely different. They just cannot be in one > compartment. > > Puja room is not a temple, it is a puja room. > <Samnyasa> is not religion, it es LEAVING of all activity. > and all your other points are clearly serving your purpose - no clear > logic. > > With best wishes > > Shaas > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj <vajradhatu@> wrote: > > > > The late great Sanskrit translator and yogi Sir John Woodroffe > > probably had access to more insight to traditional Hindu religious > > practices AND the Christian religious practices of his British > > homeland than almost anyone since. He noted there really wasn't a > huge > > difference between Hindu religious practices like the TM puja and > TM > > and Roman Catholicism. One is the Cult of Shakti and Shakta, the > other > > is a cult of the Virgin Mary and Jesus/the Father. In fact he > details > > their religious (not "scientific" or non-sectarian) sameness: > > > > "amongst Christians, the Catholic Church, like Hinduism, has a > full > > and potent Sadhana in its sacraments > > (Samskara), temple (Church), private worship (Puja, Upasana) with > > Upacara "bell, light and > > incense" (Ghanta, Dipa, Dhupa), Images or Pratima (hence it has > been > > called idolatrous), devotional rites > > such as Novenas and the like (Vrata), the threefold "Angelus" at > morn, > > noon and evening (Samdhya), > > rosary (Japa), the wearing of Kavacas (Scapulars, Medals, Agnus > Dei), > > pilgrimage (Tirtha), fasting, > > abstinence and mortification (Tapas), monastic renunciation > > (Samnyasa), meditation (Dhyana), ending > > in the union of mystical theology (Samadhi) and so forth. There > are > > other smaller details such for > > instance as Shanti-abhisheka (Asperges) into which I need not > enter > > here. I may, however, mention the > > Spiritual Director who occupies the place of the Guru; the worship > > (Hyperdulia) of the Virgin-Mother > > which made Svami Vivekananda call the Italian Catholics, Shaktas; > and > > the use of wine (Madya) and > > bread (corresponding to Mudra) in the Eucharist or Communion > Service. > > Whilst, however, the Blessed > > Virgin evokes devotion as warm as that which is here paid to Devi, > she > > is not Devi for she is not God but > > a creature selected as the vehicle of His incarnation (Avatara). > In > > the Eucharist the bread and wine are > > the body and blood of Christ appearing under the form > or "accidents" > > of those material substances; so > > also Tara is Dravamayi, that is, the "Saviour in liquid form". > > (Mahanirvana Tantra xi. 105-107.) In the > > Catholic Church (though the early practice was otherwise) the laity > no > > longer take wine but bread only, > > the officiating priest consuming both. Whilst however the outward > > forms in this case are similar, the > > inner meaning is different. Those however who contend that eating > and > > drinking are inconsistent with > > the "dignity" of worship may be reminded of Tertullian's saying > that > > Christ instituted His great > > sacrament at a meal. These notions are those of the dualist with > all > > his distinctions. For the Advaitin > > every function and act may be made a Yajña. Agape or "Love Feasts," > a > > kind of Cakra, were held in > > early times, and discontinued as orthodox practice, on account of > > abuses to which they led; though they > > are said still to exist in some of the smaller Christian sects of > the > > day. There are other points of ritual > > which are peculiar to the Tantra Shastra and of which there is no > > counterpart in the Catholic ritual such > > as Nyasa and Yantra. Mantra exists in the form of prayer and as > > formulae of consecration, but otherwise > > the subject is conceived of differently here. There are certain > > gestures (Mudra) made in the ritual, as > > when consecrating, blessing, and so forth, but they are not so > > numerous or prominent as they are here. I > > may some day more fully develop these interesting analogies, but > what > > I have said is for the present > > sufficient to establish the numerous similarities which exist > between > > the Catholic and Indian Tantrik > > ritual. Because of these facts the "reformed" Christian sects have > > charged the Catholic Church with > > "Paganism". It is in fact the inheritor of very ancient practices > but > > is not necessarily the worse for that. > > The Hindu finds his Sadhana in the Tantras of the Agama in forms > which > > his race has evolved. In the > > abstract there is no reason why his race should not modify these > forms > > of Sadhana or evolve new ones. > > But the point is that it must have some form of Sadhana. Any system > to > > be fruitful must experiment to > > gain experience. It is because of its powerful sacraments and > > disciplines that in the West the Catholic > > Church has survived to this day, holding firm upon its "Rock" amid > the > > dissolving sects, born of what is > > called the "Reform". It is likely to exist when these, as > presently > > existing sects, will have disappeared. > > All things survive by virtue of the truth in them. The particular > > truth to which I here refer is that a faith > > cannot be maintained by mere hymn-singing and pious addresses. For > > this reason too Hinduism has > > survived." > > > > Sir John Woodroffe, Shakta and Shakti. > > > > Let's look at which of the explicitly religious Hindu elements are > > found in TM which are beyond denial: > > > > Samskaras (going thru initiation ritual with various ritualized > > substances) > > Temple (Puja room) > > Puja, Upasana (puja and it's performance) > > Dipa, Dhupa (Incense, camphor) > > Pratima (picture of Guru Dev) > > Vrata (invocation of Holy Tradition) > > Japa (learn to repeat mantra mentally) > > Tapas (rounding) > > Samnyasa (THP and MD) > > Dhyana (Meditation) > > Shanti-abhisheka (empowerment of mantra) > > Guru (Guru Dev is bowed to) > > > > etc. > > > > Clearly religious AND sharing religious elements with other > religions > > as well--Roman Catholicism in this case. It also has great > similarity > > to western forms of paganism like Wicca or Voudoun. > > >
