--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <no_re...@...> wrote: <snip> > I am only making the point that many, many > people just *assume* that a spiritual teacher > is "necessary" to make significant spiritual > progress, and I'm suggesting this is an > erroneous assumption. If we believe the claims > of the enlightened, a significant number of > them (and historically an *important* number > of them) realized their enlightenment without > working with a teacher. Therefore it is pos- > sible, therefore the assumption is erroneous.
Let's just look back at what Barry *actually* suggested, rather than the revisionist version: "First, unlike many, I have noticed that the 'heavy hitters' of the spiritual world tended towards DIY -- Do It Yourself. Few of the major players in the history of religion and spiritual development are the types of guys and gals who stuck with one teacher or tradition, followed every instruc- tion given to them, and 'graduated' with honors, or with enlightenment. Many of the 'heaviest hitters,' like Buddha, Jesus, Mohammed, and dozens of Zen and Tantric luminaries *broke away* from their former teachers and traditions, and found their personal realization (and the basis of the traditions they later founded) in DIY." Barry's entire thesis here rests on the claim that the number of "heavy hitters" who achieved realization on a DIY basis is so high as to invalidate the notion that a teacher is necessary. We'll overlook the fact that he takes enlightenment for granted when it suits his purposes but insists it's only a belief for which there's no evidence when *that* suits his purposes. But notice also that, again when it suits his purposes, he talks about a teacher being unnecessary even for just "significant spiritual progress." Yet in the quote above from his initial post, it turns out that most of these alleged DIY-ers *did have teachers* to begin with. Barry is thus now denying--inadvertently, I suspect--the possibility that they made "significant spiritual progress" under these teachers. I submit that the percentage of seekers who have achieved enlightenment entirely on their own is *minuscule*. For the vast majority, a teacher *is* necessary at least to get them started. They don't tend to go off and become enlightened on their own until they have made significant spiritual progress under their teachers.
