Hi Curtis, excellent points. For me the point you make regarding the power differential between MMY and the course participant is the key that makes these "relationships" so onerous. Because of the huge power differential, all of these women were coerced, to some degree, in their choice to be sexually involved with MMY. You can't truly say they had a free choice.
--- On Mon, 7/19/10, curtisdeltablues <curtisdeltabl...@yahoo.com> wrote: > From: curtisdeltablues <curtisdeltabl...@yahoo.com> > Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Another woman comes forward > To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Monday, July 19, 2010, 12:20 PM > -- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, > "authfriend" <jst...@...> wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, > tartbrain <no_reply@> wrote: > > <snip> > > > I just can't buy 100% into this victimhood stigma > > > > you wrap these women in. > > > > I have to say it bothers me as well. It's one thing > > to sympathize with a person's pain from the results > > of a bad choice, and quite another to strip them of > > any agency in making that choice. > > I haven't seen anyone doing this. In ethical matters > concerning an abuse of a power relationship the most > relevant issue isn't the person's willingness. As I > said in another post, it really isn't focused on the women > who decide to do it, it is most focused on the ones who > refuse. But the abuse is the same from the perspective > of the power holder. And no one can sort out how much > coercion was a factor, even the victim, after the fact. > > > > > What is not helpful, however, is to criticize them > > for the choice. I suspect they've all engaged in > > quite a bit of self-criticism for it, and that's > > more than enough. It's part of the pain they're > > going through. We don't need to add to it, any more > > than we need to pin a big VICTIM label on them. > > Again, I'm not sure I've seen any such labels or that this > focus is the main point. They were victims of an abuse > of power. That doesn't mean that is their total > identity. By speaking out or moving on they have > already re-claimed some of their power over this. Our > label is not the issue, it is how they respond internally in > their healing. > > > > > I think we should give them implicit credit for > > having recognized they made a bad choice, do what > > we can to soothe their pain, and leave it at that. > > There was a continuum of how much "choice" as involved for > these women. In the case of a single mother dependent > living month to month on a paycheck when the boss comes on > to them, the choice is pretty small. For a young woman > in a foreign country being employed and supported by their > guru, I don't think the "choice" aspect is the problem. > > > > > Part of the motivation for portraying them as > > helpless victims lacking a will of their own > > seems to be that it facilitates demonizing MMY. > > The less agency the women are accorded, the more > > important his agency becomes, hence the harsher > > the blame that can be piled on him. > > This seems like a manufactured argument. I'm not sure > how you are assessing "motivation" but again this is not the > issue in play. The laws and ethical standards that > protects employees and others from unfair exploitation > doesn't deal with this side for good reason. It is the line > the person in power is crossing, not the willingness of the > person being exploited. Maharishi did a nice job > demonizing himself with his own choices, you can't pin that > on anyone here. > > > > > Not that he doesn't deserve the lion's share of > > blame. > > Legally he gets all the blame if he is an employer. > > But depriving the women of any agency at > > all creates an equation that's out of whack. > > Again, I'm not seeing this in anyone's discussion. This > aspect may not be the most reliant issue in play so it may > not have come up. I think it misses the point actually. > > And > > it dehumanizes MMY by suggesting that he himself > > never felt even a shred of remorse. Maybe he > > didn't, but we don't know that. > > I couldn't care less about his remorse, neither do the > ethical standards and laws. From Judith's book he > seemed to feel some remorse about how the sex effected his > "energy." No discussions were recorded concerning how > he was feeling about her except to blame her for wrong > thinking when she tried to get out from under his control. > > The second post here is much more troubling because this > person refused. I hope she will post some of the > ramifications of that "choice" so we can more accurately > focus on the side of the relationship the ethical standards > and laws are meant to protect. > > You've been pretty consistently both supportive of these > women and willing to take a hard look at Maharishi the > person. I think some of the differences in focus for > some posters comes from having been around the guy or > not. For anyone who has the negative implication of > turning down his advances is unfathomable. We stayed > up all night for the guy, traveled around the world, > laundered money, whatever it took to "fulfill the desires of > the master." When you are around him that IS your > technique and you do it before you even meditate, sleep or > eat. And as Judith says in her book,he seemed to turn down > the woman who were obviously trying to seduce him in favor > of women he could pursue. Their "choice" is the least > relevant aspect of what went down IMO. > > > > > > > > > > > Finally, there's a lot of hypocrisy floating > > around. There are people on FFL who are not just > > narcissistic and insensitive but actively, > > persistently sadistic. They know who they are, > > and they really ought to STFU with their > > condemnation of MMY. They'd do well to get some > > professional help as well. Sadists are never > > happy, balanced people, no matter how spiritual > > they may believe and portray themselves to be. > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > To subscribe, send a message to: > fairfieldlife-subscr...@yahoogroups.com > > Or go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ > and click 'Join This Group!'Yahoo! Groups Links > > > fairfieldlife-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com > > >
