-- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "emptybill" <emptybill@...> wrote: > > You're right. My mis-apprehension.
Little passive aggressive start, let's see where this leads... > There is nothing about you that makes you what you are. > You are not even tabula-rasa. I get it you are pissed. <Pretension is just a word.> With a specific meaning. I was applying it to religious systems that claimed knowledge about what happens after we die, and you were applying it to me. > Your belief that my statement was about just you is your own > mis-apprehension. Let's see if you are being honest here. Here is what you wrote: <"emptybill" emptybill@> wrote: It would be more helpful if you would hold your own pretensions >in "equal contempt".> You see the tip off that you were applying it to me would be the use of "your" which was directed at me. I know it is just a word and all but it means that it was not my "mis-apprehension". So you took a shot at me, why all the bullshit? <In reality/unreality it is just raw emotion > without an owner. There is nothing to know.> Lemme guess. You have passed this off as deep in the past. So you took a shot, I called you on it, you tried some monastic BS that unfortunately was exactly what you were doing yourself, and now you are taking the anit-intellectual, not owning your own shit, cop-out of trying to pass off nonsense as insight. I'm getting the picture. Let's see how long it takes for another round of poopy-pants to emerge out of this "raw emotion without an owner". > Death is the end of you, so do whatever now.> Uh, hate to break it to you but...oh never mind. Let's just say I am not some unique case among humanity. < It is already too late. > You're already a dead man walking.> So you decided to go creepy to see if that works huh? Listen Edgar, next time you set up your absinthe, with the little silver sugar holder on top, and you set it on fire so it can drop into your green liqueur, when you take your first sip allowing the anise flavor to slide over your tongue, think about this. You paid double for the cheaper version of Pernod and bought into all the fantasy trappings to distract you from that fact. This all started because I said I have contempt for systems of ideas that claim to have knowledge they cannot. I labeled it a pretension. You somehow decided that rather than discuss ideas, you would try pointing the word at me with a cryptic line. I called you out on it to tell me what I said that displayed pretension. You responded with nonsense you claimed was "monastic". That predictably didn't fly too far since you were doing exactly what you were accusing me of. So here we are with your Poe-esque pronouncements on my unique mortality and pseudo-ominous warnings about it "being too late". You aren't dealing with me straight. You seem miffed about my lack of buying into beliefs that you value. I get that. But how about constructing some mature intellectual boundaries so you can discuss these ideas without trying to make it about me being a "dead man walking". If you believe you know with certainty that you are going to have a glorious afterlife including some version of consciousness after your body rots away, good for you. I am addressing my points to the system of beliefs. If you have some insight on something I have missed, bring it on. But don't try to run a bunch of half-baked mystic crap on this old dog. I was born at night...(shit I already used that one!) Uh...oh I've got it...this ain't my first rodeo cowboy! That's the ticket. > > "We are of Peace".> Really, you are gunna try to run the old smiley face at the end to try to offset the personal ill-will toward me? Not only are you not "of Peace", you purposely turned a philosophical discussion of ideas into a version of "you are a poopy pants". Let me return your Jedi mind trick favor. Maybe you should ask yourself why you feel hostile to a person who in your beliefs will not spend eternity enjoying whatever it is that you think you are going to enjoy. Where is your compassion for your brother? If I could vote on reality, I would choose that all of us would enjoy a wonderful afterlife skipping through fields of flowers like Dorthy and the Tin Man in the poppies of OZ. But I don't get to vote on reality. I'm just doing my best to understand what version of reality seems most true to me. So give your fellow pilgrim a break and knock off all the vague ominous ill-will. As an expression of peace I give you the ONLY song of Bruce Springsteen I like. (Sorry New Jersey but I hate anthem rock.) When I play this song tears stream down my face,it is so fantastic. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gsfI6DlfjCM > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues" > <curtisdeltablues@> wrote: > > > > -- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "emptybill" emptybill@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > One of the values held by monastics is to maintain vigilant > attention > > > upon your own failings and ignore and forget the failings of other. > > > "Ignore" means not to hold them in mind at all - even as a place > > > in memory. > > > > First of all I don't accept this as a good idea at all and secondly > you are doing exactly this. And it still doesn't amount to me > displaying pretensions on the scale of "I know what happens after people > die." > > > > > > You were previously saying your experience was equal to the practice > of > > > monasticism. > > > > > > Thus, you already know this. > > > > > > Remember? > > > > I remember they had a lot of bad ideas about life including not > hanging out with women. Monastic life is not a model for my life and > obviously not yours either since this whole post is about MY failings. > > > > So why are you bringing it up? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues" > > > <curtisdeltablues@> wrote: > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "emptybill" emptybill@ > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It would be more helpful if you would hold your own pretensions > in > > > > > "equal contempt". > > > > > > > > So are you going to list what you think they are or should I put > this > > > in my "you are a poopy pants" file? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > . > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues" > > > > > <curtisdeltablues@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Does it help that I hold all their pretensions about knowing > what > > > > > happens after death in equal contempt? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Mike Dixon mdixon.6569@ > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Curtis, it's not just Christians that say you're going to > hell, > > > it's > > > > > Buddhist, > > > > > > > Hindus and Muslims as well. Christianity is the only one > that > > > claims > > > > > a *get- out > > > > > > > of- jail* card. Your beef is not with Christ or his > teaching, > > > it's > > > > > with people > > > > > > > who are passionate about their beliefs but can't articulate > > > their > > > > > point of view > > > > > > > any better. The world is evolving, we used to burn heretics > and > > > > > witches at the > > > > > > > stake. > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > > > > > From: curtisdeltablues curtisdeltablues@ > > > > > > > To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > Sent: Sun, May 22, 2011 8:18:30 PM > > > > > > > Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: And another bite... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Â > > > > > > > Excellent find Judy. The follow-up comments are really > > > interesting > > > > > too. This > > > > > > > really made me think about my own emotions about this group. > > > > > Although she is > > > > > > > getting some play from her original take, she is still > cashing > > > in on > > > > > the story > > > > > > > like everyone else. But that is not the most interesting > thing > > > for > > > > > me. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I remember when I first drove past a van on a street in my > > > > > neighborhood with > > > > > > > this rapture date claim on the side. It got me thinking and > I > > > > > fantasized going > > > > > > > to this house with a sign on the day after that said > > > > > "counter-evidence is a > > > > > > > bitch isn't it?" or something equally snarky. As the days > got > > > closer > > > > > and I saw > > > > > > > some media coverage I realized that I didn't need my hat in > the > > > > > ring. I had a > > > > > > > private party gig Saturday and considered putting empty > clothes > > > in > > > > > front of my > > > > > > > set-up as if someone had "raptured" in front of me. The > party I > > > was > > > > > playing for > > > > > > > was DC, well-off, hip-enough, nice folks who threw in a few > > > > > references to the > > > > > > > time of the event and chuckled a bit. I didn't sense any > malice > > > or > > > > > the kind of > > > > > > > put down this writer seems to be objecting to. I'm not sure > the > > > > > press's need for > > > > > > > a story really reflects how we all think about it all. Mixed > > > with > > > > > the snark was > > > > > > > some genuine bafflement, "how could someone buy in to this?" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But here is where is gets even more interesting for me. Even > > > though > > > > > this event > > > > > > > was a compressed example put into a falsifiable form, the > > > rapture is > > > > > not a > > > > > > > fringe belief. It is mainstream Christianity. And if you > drop > > > the > > > > > date all the > > > > > > > other beliefs are there. So this writer is basically saying > that > > > we > > > > > should all > > > > > > > pity all of those Christians who believe all the same stuff > > > without > > > > > the specific > > > > > > > date. Should we think of them as having a "dysfunction" for > such > > > > > beliefs? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And here is where it gets in my craw a bit. More than the > belief > > > > > that sitting in > > > > > > > a dome doing Maharishi's sidhis creates world peace, by a > long > > > shot. > > > > > In their > > > > > > > fantasy they are not satisfied with creating a ideal society > > > like > > > > > TMers. > > > > > > > Although I bristle a bit when people lay an "I am > intrinsically > > > more > > > > > WHATEVER > > > > > > > than you are and understand life in a way you cannot" this > is > > > not > > > > > even close to > > > > > > > what these people are laying on me. They want my head on a > pike > > > for > > > > > eternity! > > > > > > > Bastards! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I think that is what gets people not in their group pissed, > the > > > > > malicious > > > > > > > arrogance of their belief, so we want a little payback. We > can't > > > get > > > > > if from the > > > > > > > smug ill-wishing Christians who basically believe the same > > > thing. > > > > > With this > > > > > > > group we get the satisfaction we will never get after death > with > > > the > > > > > mainstream > > > > > > > Christians to say, "Neeener neeeener neeeener." I mean that > is > > > not > > > > > so high on > > > > > > > the malicious scale as their wishing I will spend an > eternity in > > > a > > > > > place where > > > > > > > whenever I order my burrito alfresco with no cheese in a > > > drive-thru, > > > > > when I get > > > > > > > to where I can stop and eat it, I will always find out that > my > > > > > burrito is slimed > > > > > > > with that nasty cheese-food-product that doubles the > calories on > > > my > > > > > already > > > > > > > guilty meal while presenting my liver with Martin-molecules > of > > > fat > > > > > that makes my > > > > > > > liver make that Homer Simpson sound when it tries to oxidize > it: > > > > > "Doh!" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So I get it that spiking the ball is too much and I believe > most > > > > > people not > > > > > > > trying to fill up media space feel that way too. But lets > not > > > forget > > > > > that for > > > > > > > every one of these people there are one hundred, (thousand, > > > hundred > > > > > thousand???) > > > > > > > people who basically believe the same thing without the > > > stop-watch. > > > > > And some of > > > > > > > them are making political/ecological decisions about our > > > > > custodianship of a > > > > > > > planet that they believe is their launching pad, and > disposable. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So for me, it is a virtue to call BS on such claims when we > can. > > > I > > > > > only wish the > > > > > > > "media" could grow a pair and connect this with all the > other > > > slo-mo > > > > > rapture > > > > > > > believers. In fact I would like to see an article pointing > out > > > that > > > > > while this > > > > > > > small fringe was eating their crow (here is a case where > that > > > crappy > > > > > cheese > > > > > > > might help the taste) millions of Christians had re-affirmed > > > their > > > > > faith that > > > > > > > morning in churches, believing equally nutty things about > their > > > own > > > > > specialness. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And they don't get a pass because they think it will all > happen > > > > > after we die. > > > > > > > They still want me to have an eternity tying to use my thumb > to > > > get > > > > > off that > > > > > > > sticky crap that every sticker leaves on every damn kitchen > item > > > we > > > > > buy today. I > > > > > > > use my nail and I scratch the surface, I use my finger back > and > > > > > forth and it > > > > > > > leaves that weird square film. God help you if you break out > a > > > scrub > > > > > pad cuz > > > > > > > your new peeler, grater,Italian pasta bowls, or olive pitter > > > (works > > > > > on cherries > > > > > > > too)will forever have hatch-mark scratches from your efforts > to > > > > > remove that > > > > > > > sticky crap. (I tried rubbing alcohol and it only works > > > sometimes.) > > > > > I think they > > > > > > > make it out of that cheese they put in my burritos. (I was > > > trying > > > > > for Dave Barry > > > > > > > but I think I just swung perilously close to Andy Rooney on > this > > > > > one.) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So I get that we shouldn't gloat too much that this group > was > > > dead > > > > > wrong. But at > > > > > > > the core of Christian belief is the extremely uncharitable > > > belief > > > > > that they are > > > > > > > going to heaven and I am going to hell, because we don't > share > > > the > > > > > same thoughts > > > > > > > in our heads. I think I can be excused if for a week I dance > > > around > > > > > a bit while > > > > > > > the ill-wishers rationalize their next hate-date. And it > makes > > > me > > > > > feel all the > > > > > > > more sympathetic for the people who bounce on their butts to > > > create > > > > > world peace, > > > > > > > even for cretins like ME who do not buy into their > enlightened > > > > > beliefs. Makes me > > > > > > > want to share a tofu taco with them, alfresco, with the > sprouts > > > and > > > > > the quac, > > > > > > > and please lay on some of that genuine organic cheddar > cheese > > > > > brother, AMEN! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <jstein@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From "Too Much Judgment: The media's shameful, cruel > obsession > > > > > with those > > > > > > > >awaiting the rapture" by Tiffany Stanley, in The New > Republic: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ...Laughing at religious fanatics is nothing new. And, at > some > > > > > level, there's > > > > > > > >nothing wrong with it. But this story didn't just take off > in > > > > > popularity because > > > > > > > >people wanted a quick laugh or some insight into a quirky > > > subset of > > > > > our country. > > > > > > > >There's a cruelty underlying our desire to laugh at this > > > > > storyâ"a desire to see > > > > > > > >people humiliated and to revel in our own superiority and > > > > > rationalityâ"even > > > > > > > >though the people in question are pretty tragic characters, > who > > > > > either have > > > > > > > >serious problems themselves or perhaps are being taken > > > advantage > > > > > of, or both. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sure, it's an interesting story when a fringe group > decides > > > the > > > > > world is ending > > > > > > > >tomorrow. But it's also a small story. Come Sunday morning, > as > > > news > > > > > articles > > > > > > > >flood in about the disillusioned end-timers, and those > articles > > > > > instantly become > > > > > > > >some of the most popular on the webâ"as they surely > > > > > willâ"we might want to ask > > > > > > > >ourselves not what is wrong with this sad group of > apocalyptic > > > > > believers, but > > > > > > > >rather what is wrong with a society that takes such > pleasure in > > > > > their > > > > > > > >dysfunction. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Read more: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.tnr.com/article/88803/rapture-judgement-day-may-21-media-obse\ > \ > > > \ > > > > > ssion > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://tinyurl.com/3gudl9a > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
