--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Yifu" <yifuxero@...> wrote: > > Like I said, if somebody (say any Krishna Bhaktis of various stripes - the > Hare Krishna Guru, Swami Prakashanand, the fellow below...etc) claims Krishna > is the "Supreme Personality of Godhead", apart from Scriptures, what's the > evidence?
You're not paying attention, Yifu and you clearly didn't read the post. He didn't claim that Krishna is the "Supreme Personality of Godhead". This is what he said: "Is the Absolute dual, or is the Absolute non-dual is the Absolute personal, is the Absolute impersonal?" And sometimes I would get very vague answers. And sometimes I would get very conflicting, combating answers against the apparent opposing side. And I was really looking to understand. "And on the path of Bhakti I found what I felt to be the synthesis of the two, and it's based on the Shrimad Bhagavatam, the Upanishads, the holy scriptures and a whole line of great saintly people who teach this principle. And I'll share with you a little piece of it. "There's a beautiful verse in the Vedas (recites verse in Sanskrit then explains it as follows): There's one Absolute Truth we can call God, we can call Nirvana, but there's one Absolute Truth. And according to the Vedas, this one Absolute Truth eternally, simultaneously has three features: Brahman, Paramatma and Bhagawan. "Brahman is the all-pervading formless, impersonal Absolute, which is... the realization of that Brahman is to merge with that one Absolute. "Paramatma is that one Supreme same Absolute who is situated within the heart of every living being, giving guidance, giving intuition when we actually connect to it. And Patanjali and many yogis really tried to connect to that Paramatma, that Absolute within the heart who can give power, who can give wisdom, who can give everything. And then there is Bhagawan which is the Absolute with personal form." ----- > The Guru below appears to be more "liberal" than the Fundie Bhakti's since he's saying there's a certain legitimacy in accepting the impersonal Absolute in terms of Realization, along with Bhakti. Fine...even Ramana Maharshi was a devotee of Shiva and Ramakrishna was a devotee of Kali. > ... > However, under the cover of Absoluteness, he appears to be sneaking in a form > of "Godhead" Personality worship; even though he's provided no evidence that > Krishna is superior to YHVH or the Scientology God Xenu. Again, there's no > evidence that one or the other of these "gods" is the "Supreme Personality of > Godhead". > ... > The Guru below is a Wolf in Sheep's clothing - trying to sneak in Hare > Krishna Fundamentalism in to the field under the cover of Brahman > Realization. It's a Trojan Horse. Don't fall for it. > ... > Either there is a "Supreme Personality of the Godhead" or there is not. But > should any Entity make such a claim, I would spit in His face. Goddesses such > as Kali and Durga are sugar and spice. The male "gods": Krishna, YHVH, > Ram,...appear to be self-worshipping abusers high on testosterone rather than > Soma. > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "do.rflex" <do.rflex@> wrote: > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Yifu" <yifuxero@> wrote: > > > > > > Don't let yourself be conned by these Krishna Bhaktis. Krishna is not the > > > "Supreme Personality of Godhead". > > > > > > Nowhere in the interview was that claimed. > > > > > > > > > There is no such Personality, and the burden of proof apart from merely > > quoting Scriptures is on the claimants. > > > > > > > So where's the proof of YOUR claim, Yufi? > > > > > > > > > Anybody however, is free to set up a dualist, loving relationship with one > > of these "gods"; whomever She/He may be. > > > http://www.utilitarianism.com/gautama-buddha.jpg > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "do.rflex" <do.rflex@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Excerpt transcribed from an interview Radhanath Swami gave to Rick > > > > Archer - > > > > > > > > > > > > Rick Archer: I exchanged a Facebook chat with someone the other day who > > > > had had what she called a 'non-dual' realization. If you're kind of in > > > > tune with the current atmosphere around, there are a lot of teachers > > > > espousing non-duality and non-dual realizations and I hear very little > > > > talk of God among them. > > > > > > > > > > > > But in any case this girl said that, you know what, there was no sense > > > > of personal self and all is one, but there was no bliss. And she said, > > > > well is that all enlightenment is. It's hyped up to be this great > > > > blissful thing and I'm hardly even interested now. It didn't have the > > > > allure that I expected it to have. > > > > > > > > I suggested to her that perhaps that little glimpse she had had was not > > > > necessarily the full blossoming of what enlightenment or realization or > > > > awakening can be and that she should keep persevering as there's more to > > > > it. > > > > > > > > I just want to throw in one more point and I want you to respond, and > > > > that is that interviewing lots and lots of people, a new one every week, > > > > I encounter a great number of people who don't say much or speak much of > > > > God. They almost seem to think of God as a human concept, and yet they > > > > have a sort of a realization, a non-dual realization of some sort. And > > > > I'm always kind of needling them a bit to suggest that perhaps there's > > > > further progress yet to undergo and that the whole thing will become > > > > richer, fuller and more with a Divine quality to it as time goes on. > > > > > > > > Very often they say, no, no, I don't see how there can possibly be any > > > > further progress. So it's a pity in a way. It seems like, to me anyway, > > > > it's only half the package and there's more to be known. > > > > > > > > Radhanath Swami: (chuckles) You're expert, Rick, at extracting deeper > > > > and deeper understanding. To be honest with you, I had the same dilemma > > > > on my journey and I have written about in my book 'The Journey Home' > > > > that I met people that I saw such incredible character of compassion ans > > > > self-control and enlightenment. > > > > > > > > > > > > And some of them were talking about the Absolute being a very > > > > all-pervading impersonal experience and others, a very intimate loving > > > > personal experience. And I loved my teachers in both of these schools, > > > > and the many variations among these schools. > > > > > > > > I was only 19 or 20 years old at the time and I was really seeking. And > > > > I couldn't just accept superficial answers some people gave me when I > > > > questioned. "Is the Absolute dual, or is the Absolute non-dual > > > > is the Absolute personal, is the Absolute impersonal?" > > > > > > > > > > > > And sometimes I would get very vague answers. And sometimes I would get > > > > very conflicting, combatting answers against the apparent opposing side. > > > > And I was really looking to understand. And on the path of Bhakti I > > > > found what I felt to be the synthesis of the two, and it's based on the > > > > Shrimad Bhagavatam, the Upanishads, the holy scriptures and a whole line > > > > of great saintly people who teach this principle. And I'll share with > > > > you a little piece of it. > > > > > > > > Rick: Please. > > > > > > > > Radhanath Swami: There's a beautiful verse in the Vedas (recites verse > > > > in Sanskrit then explains it as follows): There's one Absolute Truth we > > > > can call God, we can call Nirvana, but there's one Absolute Truth. And > > > > according to the Vedas, this one Absolute Truth eternally, > > > > simultaneously has three features: Brahman, Paramatma and Bhagawan. > > > > > > > > > > > > Brahman is the all-pervading formless, impersonal Absolute, which is... > > > > the realization of that Brahman is to merge with that one Absolute. > > > > > > > > > > > > Paramatma is that one Supreme same Absolute who is situated within the > > > > heart of every living being, giving guidance, giving intuition when we > > > > actually connect to it. And Patanjali and many yogis really tried to > > > > connect to that Paramatma, that Absolute within the heart who can give > > > > power, who can give wisdom, who can give everything. > > > > > > > > And then there is Bhagawan which is the Absolute with persnoal form. > > > > > > > > Rick: The Personal aspect of God. > > > > > > > > Radhanath Swami: Yeah, the Personal aspect of God just like the > > > > sun and the sunshine. The sunshine is like Brahman. It's all-pervading, > > > > it's everywhere, it's light. And the sun is simultaneously existing with > > > > the sunlight and the sun has form. So God simultaneously exists, but God > > > > is infinite. > > > > > > > > When we say that form limits God, to say that God has no form is also a > > > > limit of God. So the Bhakti scriptures teach that the form of the Lord, > > > > or Bhagawan is eternal, full of knowledge and full of bliss. > > > > > > > > It's not material. It's not conceivable. Like I have eyes, and because > > > > my eyes can only see a certain distance, my eyes are limited. So some > > > > will say for God to be unlimited he has to have no eyes. The Bhakti > > > > scriptures say that God has eyes but God's eyes can see all things at > > > > all times everywhere. Now we may say, how is that possiblebut the Bhakti > > > > scriptures say that the Absolute is beyong the limits of what we > > > > consider possible otherwise what's the use of Him being the Absolute? > > > > > > > > So, for those who seek this mukti, or this eternal freedom from all > > > > suffering, from all pain, from all ego, the ecstacy of mukti is the goal > > > > of those who seek the non-dual aspect of the Absolute. And the goal of > > > > those who seek the personal aspect is 'prema' which means Divine love > > > > based on intimate, loving relationships which are forever. > > > > > > > > The Vedas explain that beyond this material creation there's the > > > > spiritual sky which is the all-pervading Brahman. Then there is many > > > > many spiritual planets within the spiritual sky where there are the > > > > different aspects of God; Ram, Shiva, Krishna. These different aspects > > > > of God are eternally existing and exchanging eternal unlimited loving > > > > relationships with their devotees. > > > > > > > > Radhanath Swami recites a verse and explains it as expressing that we > > > > are inconceivably one with God and different from God. God is > > > > inconceivably personal and impersonal and according to how we > > > > approach the Lord, the Lord will reveal accordingly. > > > > > > > > And this was very important to me because I met people who worship Ram, > > > > who worship Krishna in a very very personal way and their goal in life > > > > was to have eternal loving relationship with the person of God. And I > > > > met others who wanted to go beyong all form and enter into this > > > > all-pervading Oneness. And both sides, they were great saints. But in my > > > > heart, I was pulled toward prema toward this eternal sweet, loving > > > > relationship that we can eternally have with Bhagawan. > > > > > > > > ~~ The complete interview along with a brief bio of Radhanath Swami can > > > > be seen here: http://batgap.com/radhanath-swami/ > > > > <http://batgap.com/radhanath-swami/> > > > > > > > > > >
