Now *this* is the quality of "call and response" I miss on Fairfield Life.
Rick had every opportunity to overreact to this post, and to get all defensive or even abrasive in his response. And yet that didn't happen. The fact that it didn't speaks IMO to the concept of "spiritual maturity" on both sides of the conversation. Would that this level of exchange were more common. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Rick Archer" <rick@...> wrote: > > Canât argue with you. your perspective is well-thought-out and well-written. Mine is that I know folks who see Amma or even live in her ashram who span a wide range of personal and spiritual maturity. Some are quite cultish in their thinking and behavior, some quite independent. On the whole though, Iâve always been impressed with the caliber and âvibeâ of the people around Amma. Maharishi used to say that you can tell the quality of a teacher by the quality of his/her followers, and from my perspective, Ammaâs followers are evidence of a benign teacher. The young people who have been hanging with her seem to be turning out very well â" bright, sincere, drug-free, and Amma steers them into higher education. I doubt that there is a spiritual movement on earth that doesnât have its disgruntled deserters. I agree with your comment about Sai Baba. I donât know whether or why Amma said what she is reported to have said about him, but if she did, IMO she was wrong. But thatâs just my opinion. YMMV. > > > > From: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com [mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Denise Evans > Sent: Friday, June 17, 2011 1:13 PM > To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com > Subject: RE: [FairfieldLife] Visit with Amma > > > > > > > I respect the idea of "taking what works for you and leaving the rest." That can work if one, as an adult, doesn't give up one's ability to assess critically by embracing "blind faith." For me, however, while I enjoyed the food, music, service, meditation, group faith and even the opportunity to purchase/shop for CD's and books, the bottom line is that if one delves a bit deeper into the message, the more subtle aspects of it push/encourage/reinforce on a constant basis the concept that Amma is the one to be prayed to and that she is divine and an incarnation of God. This wouldn't have been evident unless if we hadn't embraced the three-day retreat/immersion. While this may be what a "saint" is, it is also a danger if one truly gives up a potential personal and direct connection to the Universal consciousness that we all can have as souls and turning over one's life and independent thought process and questioning nature to another human (I still see her as human, despite her ability to manipulate energy or alleged all-knowing, psychic skills). > > > > Not everyone does this, but the devotees who do may spend years of their life and their money in this effort and get in so deep that they lose themselves and their families in the process. I think the concepts of "disappointment", "let down", or "betrayal" do not go far enough to explain the spiritual crisis that occurs when the discrepancies between the ideals/big picture teachings and the actual behavior of the "saint" or "organization" bear witness to the fact that this is not God, but in fact a human construct with agendas reflecting ego and control and acquisition of wealth and corporate-like growth. One must be careful in deciding to follow a "human" professing to be "realized." Note that Sai Baba was found to be a pedophile before he died - Amma also acknowledged him as a great "saint" at one time - whoops - not in my realm of existence, not ever - this was not an "all-knowing" statement. > > > > My daughter has learning disabilities that inhibit critical thought; while I think meditation would be great for her, she learned in her youth class to meditate to Amma - this amounts to pressuring impressionable minds at a young age. The same was reinforced in my class (although there was brief lip service to the idea that we could "pray to whoever our God was") I think this one aspect corrupted the value of the meditation unfortunately. > > > > I asked to join the examma group to try and educate myself from those who had a perspective or experience informed by years of following. I simply could not find a balanced perspective on the internet. These accounts can be found and they are interesting to say the least - all is not always as it appears on the outside. The site is moderated heavily as it is supposed to a safe place for ex-devotees to share their story with some privacy - there is fear, in some cases about repercussions and/or attack from current devotees and the organization - which some have experienced. Overall, while I do not qualify as an "ex-devotee", I was desperate to understand more and appreciate the opportunity to have reviewed the first-account postings which, admittedly, have to be sorted out from all of the other posts. The site has evolved over time as all sites do. The ammachi_free_zone site is public and open to discourse and some of the historical postings on that site are also interesting. > > > > While I personally think that Amma and the organization absolutely reflects a cult status in many aspects, I don't believe that this is all that it is. I shared my story mostly to encourage people to retain their right to question and objectively evaluate the experience as an individual soul. > > > > > > > > > > > > --- On Thu, 6/16/11, Rick Archer rick@... wrote: > > > From: Rick Archer rick@... > Subject: RE: [FairfieldLife] Visit with Amma > To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com > Date: Thursday, June 16, 2011, 10:46 AM > > > > Interesting, honest account. Iâve been seeing Amma for about 12 years and have been meditating regularly (TM) since 1968. I canât dispute any of the externals you describe. I think your description of those is accurate. A lot of it is, as you say, necessary to manage the crowds that Amma hugs. Very carefully thought-out, detailed procedures are in place to keep things flowing smoothly. A few extra seconds spent unnecessarily with each person can mean hours in the course of a day. Amma is 57. All this has taken a toll on her body and every effort is made to lessen her load. The whole scene is very Indian, even cult-like. I approach it, as I try to approach all things, with a âtake what you need and leave the restâ attitude. I believe that âenergyâ you felt is genuine and benign. I think it can be powerfully instrumental in furthering oneâs spiritual progress. That, and the culture around Amma, may be addictive for some people. As for me, after a dozen years seeing Amma on many occasions, I actually feel more independent. I donât pay much attention to all the hoopla you mention. I just tune into that energy and come away feeling more clear and uplifted. As for the Ex-Amma group, it is moderated by someone who only saw Amma once, from afar, and who has a vendetta against Eastern spirituality in general, and for personal reasons, Amma in particular. I have never participated in the group, but I am told that it is heavily moderated, and comments defending or supporting Amma are not approved. So Iâd take that group with a big grain of salt. Iâve seen a lot of kids helped tremendously by Amma - gotten off drugs and steered toward higher education and a healthy lifestyle. So Iâd think twice about blocking your daughterâs further participation. >
