Nice rap, I'll take a shot at this having been mentioned by name. And I hope
you don't take my curmudgeonly response as a tarnish on the playful goodwill we
groove on. It's just that the term innocence is really an overused and misused
concept in spirituality, IMO, and is often used by people who want you to STFU
for their own purposes.
In the specific context of TM I was mostly advising her that if she comes here
she will be off the program that the organization lays out. I was not trying
to steer her if that was a good or bad thing because frankly I don't really
know. I guess if I had to pick one for some game show I would go with practice
TM for a year before you start interacting with the likes of us since you laid
out some heavy bread and should have done all this research beforehand. But I
am not confident about that answer and was mostly trying to let her make her
own decision knowing what was in play as best I could. You need some context
preparation before someone lays the full monty on your ass, and maybe she was
really just looking for an excuse to get away from those 6 kids for some time.
You never know. Anyway here is my response interspersed with your list of
things I have enjoyed as well.
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Bob Price <bobpriced@...> wrote:
>
> In a comment to our new meditator
>
> my favourite epicurean poet blues breaker
> got me thinking about the magic of innocence.
>
> I sometimes experience a sense memory
> of a time in my childhood when everything
> was in the future and therefore seemed
> possible.
>
> I also have viid memories of my first love,>
There is innocence here but if you haven't had your ass handed to you a few
times in love, it is tenuous and you can overplay your hand or hang on to
someone not worth it due to innocence. In other words the innocence is not
your friend in love, wisdom through experience, especially in the area of when
to hold them and when to fold them, trumps innocence IMO. Many people's first
love experiences sucked and damaged them because they didn't have the tools.
I'm sure I have turned more women into lesbians than Melissa Etheridge. The
relationship I have today kicks the ass of all previous relationships precisely
due to our shared lack of innocence.
> my first white light experience on acid,>
Here innocence is definitely dangerous. It is the proper preparation for a
trip, setting and mind set that make for an experience of insight from
psychedelics. Innocence has so little to do with this, getting good product,
planning your experience, picking a guide. Otherwise you can get into serious
trouble. And despite the fact that the first time through the veil is
mindblowing, acid pretty much kicks your ass each time no matter how often you
have done it. (Or so I have read with absolutely no experience in anything
illegal with the possible exception of my connection to a few missing hookers
in Vegas.)
> my first drink,>
Innocence overrated to your peril. You need to know about doses. Kids in
stupid college drinking games die form being innocent about the deadly effects
of too much alcohol. In fact they even die from being innocent to the effects
of water ingestion at stupid frat hazing levels. It wasn't the innocence that
made if great. It can feel just as great today. It is a neruo-transmitter
thing, not your innocence. You can actually have a better time when you
understand your proper dose.
< my first meditation>
I guess maybe. I never taught anyone whose POV disrupted their practice. We
wammied them pretty good with the puja induction. And my meditation today is
actually better than it was at first and I am as far from innocent at this
point as you can be. (That may be BS as far as the practice goes, in some ways
I am more innocent during the practice because I have many fewer expectations.)
I can let go way better now that I don't expect some deity to zoom forth like
some audio-animatronic creature on the old school Mr.Toad's Wild Ride at
Disneyworld.
and
> the time I believed Maharishi blasted
> open all my chakras.>
This is what really made me want to respond. Our experiences of Maharishi's
"darshon" was a carefully choreographed effect. We used to wait for hours for
him, usually in hours of trance,("it would be good if we close the eyes while
waiting for Maharishi") and when he showed up he used iconic Christlike
triggers to hit our primal buttons of acknowledging the alpha ape. Deep
survival buttons which, like the joy that comes with sex (that was more literal
than I realize!) it is hardwired into our species survival so it is front
loaded to be a fun house. (My darshon thoery in a nut...shell. Again
literally...) As long as Mao gave darshon to many more people I have to
believe this is something we are bringing to the party but that staging helps
induce it.
There was no aspect of our experience of the guy that was innocent, he was
putting on a "I am really, really special" play. And we responded through our
enhanced states of suggestibility as would be predicted for anyone who knows
how trance affects experience. And when I hung out with him day after day,it
went away because you can't sustain that level except in doses. Sometimes he
was just the crankiest of old farts.
>
> Looking back at these experiences they have a
> sense of magic about them. They also seem
> innocent.
I'm down with the sense of magic, but as you can tell, don't attribute this to
innocence. They are just all great experiences.
>
> So Curtis's comment to Beth about innocence
> got me thinking. With my left brain (I'm
> right handed) in the state its in is the innocence
> required for magic still possible? And if not,
> why not?
This is not to say that I am down on innocence in all contexts. It can be an
aspect of intelligence to view things in an innocent way or at least an open
minded way. This is especially important in dealing with people so they can
surprise you. But I believe innocence itself is often overrated, and Jesus'
supposed phrase that we had to be innocent as children to enter the kingdom of
heaven is just bad advice. Many adults do lose the joy and openness children
can express. But if you can still pull that off as an adult, there is nothing
else about children's mental POV that is appealing to me. The flip side of
innocence is ignorance. They often show up together. I work with kids all the
time and their innocence comes with a healthy dose of Lord of the Flies that we
learn to curb as we lose our overrated innocence.
Now if you will excuse me I need to put together a smoothy made our of a batch
of puppies I bought off Craigslist. Fantastic protein boost. It gives me the
energy I need to run around in a reaper's costume at the local children's
hospital. Their innocent reaction delights me.
>
