--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ravi Yogi" <raviyogi@...> wrote: > > Doubt has a use by date, truth is beyond belief.
A Raviism!, A Raviism!. And you can't fool me. I know you got this off a Kraft Macaroni and Cheese box, and modified it slightly. > So it is useful to just adopt a set of belief rather than spend the > entire lifetime in doubt for the fear and discomfort with adopting a set > of belief, spending the lifetime changing beliefs to standout and make > fun of others who do adopt beliefs. > Sooner or later the people who were centered in "I-Am-RIGHTness" will > move beyond belief but one refusing to adopt beliefs will be forever > stuck in > "I-Am-Simply-Not-In-The-Position-Of-Being-Able-To-Assume-My-Own-RIGHTnes\ \ > s". > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb no_reply@ wrote: > > > > On another forum, I am watching a bunch of folks who have never really > > entertained any serious doubts about their teacher, his enlightenment, > > and his important role in the cosmic significance of the universe > > encounter former students of the same teacher who have entertained all > > of these doubts. This can be an unsettling experience. I can almost > hear > > some of them thinking, because I've seen similar thoughts put into > words > > on so many forums where this same meeting of minds has taken place: > "How > > can these guys possibly doubt what is so obviously Truth to me? What > is > > WRONG with them to be able to do that?" > > > > So what I'm wondering in this cafe today is where these thoughts *came > > from*. Were the people in question born with them, or did they learn > to > > think that way? If the latter, did they learn this way of thinking > > directly from the teacher they have never been able to even *imagine* > > having doubts about? And if so, was that because of anything the > teacher > > ever *said* directly, or just in the way he carried himself? > > > > I think that a lot of this 'tude is conveyed wordlessly, in the way in > > which a spiritual teacher "carries himself." I think that this mindset > > of complete certainty on the part of the students comes from the > > teacher; *he* is completely certain. He believes his own stories not > > only to be true, but Truth. > > > > There is a powerful charisma in being that certain about one's own > > stories. Other people can feel your own certainty and, living as they > do > > in a world of uncertainty, they are attracted to the teacher's > certainty > > and wonder how they could get some of it for themselves. The teacher > > seems to never exhibit any doubts or disbelief in his own stories. He > is > > in a very real sense "centered in his own I-am-RIGHTness." Such > teachers > > often can't even *conceive of* being wrong; if they had the idea or > > performed the action, it was right. > > > > The thing is, is it? > > > > It's all well and good to commend someone's belief in their own > > essential RIGHTness 24/7, but what if they're...uh...uh...WRONG? What > if > > they're not really as fully enlightened as they think they are? What > if > > they were...uh...mistaken about that? What if they were equally > mistaken > > about the things they taught being the "highest path?" What if they > did > > a few things while pursuing that path that negatively impacted the > lives > > of others? > > > > At this point, is the "good student's" tenacious lack of doubt in > > everything that the teacher said or did being right...uh...right? Or > is > > it merely a reflection of the stories that the teacher told about > > himself, stories that might -- if the above paragraph were true -- be > > based in untruth, and possibly self delusion? > > > > I see a value in doubt. My definition of doubt (at least in this > > particular cafe, at this particular moment) is the process of Stepping > > Away From The Certainty. I like to (nay, get off on) trying to suss > out > > the underlying unchallenged assumptions that I take for granted when > > believing the things that I believe, and then challenging them. It's > > almost like a home-grown Byron Katie thang; I ask myself, "Self, what > if > > this assumption I've been making is not true? What would *my* story, > > based on the belief this assumption is true, look like if it weren't?" > > > > I guess I'm more centered in the > > > I-Am-Simply-Not-In-The-Position-Of-Being-Able-To-Assume-My-Own-RIGHTness > > mindset. Such a mindset doth not seem to have the same charisma factor > > as its opposite, the sense of I-Am-RIGHTness. No one is ever likely to > > glom onto me and follow me as any kind of spiritual teacher, because I > > don't offer them anything to be certain about. And that leads me to > the > > subject of my next cafe rap... > > >
