<snip> "The ideas of multiverses and consciousness can fit within you belief system if you choose to do so. They do not necessarily refute the idea that there is a heaven or hell. These ideas, IMO, are made available for you to find your faith so that it is in keeping with recent ideas in science. Or, they can also strengthen your faith depending on how you perceive these ideas."
Yep. I find that my belief system evolves...I accept/reject/holds in reserve or non-judgement more possibilities as time rolls on. ________________________________ From: John <jr_...@yahoo.com> To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, October 21, 2011 9:19 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Mystery of Consciousness --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Denise Evans <dmevans365@...> wrote: > > O.K.  So then, how does one reconcile with the idea that there is this > seeming hierarchy to consciousness.  > > Back to my original post, Sam states that "Arranging atoms in a certain way > appears to bring consciousness into being. And this fact is among the deepest > mysteries given to us to contemplate."  > > > If this were true, This leads me to believe one of 2 things: 1) Once we die > and our spirit or soul "returns" (for lack of a better word) to the larger > consciousness...our atoms could be up for grabs again and perhaps we would > become part of the mix that our world "reincarnates" as a rock; It all depends in what your faith tells you. Most believers would think that your soul would return the Self or the larger consciousness. If you're a Hindu, your atoms after you die are like old clothes that are to be discarded. You are no longer identified to be part of those atoms. Those discarded atoms could be part of a rock, a star, or a tree. Or, 2) once having been arranged as a form with consciousness...the basic mix doesn't change and we re-incarnate as human again or other being with the ability for consciousness intact.  And, if consciousness is primarily characterized as "sentience", then depending on whether we agree that animals possess consciousness, we could potentially reincarnate as such. If you're a Hindu, you can believe that you can reincarnate as a human being which depends on how you lead your life here on earth. If you lead a life unworthy of a human being, you can reincarnate as an animal or even lower. Or, 3) THIS IS IT.....and all the past life philosophy is in fact an illusory projection of our brain of existing parallel realities. You have to make your own choice in what to believe. No one can make this decision for you. > In all cases...the idea that there is some "consequence" or "punishment" or > "continued karma to work out past this life" associated with the way we lead > our lives today leading to future condemnation of some sort is seemingly a > completely human construct given the multiverse/consciousness theory. >  Heresy, basically. The points we were discussing have nothing to do with what faith to believe in. The ideas of multiverses and consciousness can fit within you belief system if you choose to do so. They do not necessarily refute the idea that there is a heaven or hell. These ideas, IMO, are made available for you to find your faith so that it is in keeping with recent ideas in science. Or, they can also strengthen your faith depending on how you perceive these ideas. Heresy is a loaded word. It requires that you state what your criterion is for heresy. It appears that you're the only one who knows what the criteria is. > > > ________________________________ > From: John <jr_esq@...> > To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Friday, October 21, 2011 3:30 PM > Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Mystery of Consciousness > > >  > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Denise Evans <dmevans365@> wrote: > > > > I'm liking this idea of "parallel" or "other" realities. > > > > So in terms of consciousness and dispensing with the factor of linear time > > and the question of which came first (chicken or egg question)...could one > > say that consciousness and the universe/multiverse and "love" persay (and I > > mean that in the context of "God is love", are one in the same?  Same > > energy, defined differently depending on purposes we are wanting to > > interpret?  > > The answer to your question is, YES! But I would like to add what Thomas > Merton said about God: He or She is everything that you can think of, but at > the same time, It is NOT. > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > From: John <jr_esq@> > > To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Friday, October 21, 2011 11:55 AM > > Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Mystery of Consciousness > > > > > >  > > > > > > > > John believes the latter: > > > > > > > > > "The paradox of consciousness is that it takes a highly developed > > > sentient being to understand that it is the basis of creation of the > > > universe." > > > > > > > > > Sam spends a lot of time on whether "Something can come out of > > > nothing"...or "can consciousness emerge from unconscious complexity" > > > > > > Heck, who knows?  So, in my curiosity, I googled the question and > > > lo and behold, the topic of multiverses. I did attempt to read the 4 > > > Levels of Multiverses from Max and his wonky website.  > > > > > > This may have been posted before, but here it is again.  It is a > > > cosmologist who explains multiverses as the soap bubble theory with > > > umbilical cords that could give a scientific way to explain both the > > > Christian God and Buddhist nirvana philosophies, for example. I think I > > > may have grasped this concept. > > > > > > http://liberatedmind.com/2009/10/can-something-come-from-nothing/ > > > > > > But now I have forgotten...what is consciousness and how does it relate > > > to the universe or multiverse? > > > > Denise, > > > > The multiverse can apply to all the various possibilities that apply to > > your life. There are various universes that you can inhabit. For example, > > there is a different universe which applies for the timeline relating to > > your choices. That is, there is a universe in which you are married. And, > > there is also another universe in which you are not married. The paradox > > is that during your lifetime you have a choice as to which universe you > > choose to manifest or live in. > > > > In other words, there is a universe that exists next to you in which Elvis > > Presley is still alive. And, there is also another universe next to you in > > which the Nazis won the WWII and we are all now speaking German and have > > the swastika as our national logo. > > > > Furthermore, our consciousness can fathom the probability that our > > multiverse can continue on forever. But at the cusp of infinity, another > > multiverse could exist which we cannot contact or verify with our > > telescope. Hence, we can only speculate that this neighboring > > multiuniverse could only exist as pure potential floating in the Unified > > Field of all possibilities. > > > > So, there you have it...the whole extent of Consciousness. > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > From: tartbrain <no_re...@yahoogroups.com> > > > To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Sent: Thursday, October 20, 2011 10:08 PM > > > Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Mystery of Consciousness > > > > > > > > >  > > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "John" <jr_esq@> wrote: > > > > > > > > The paradox of consciousness is that it takes a highly developed > > > > sentient being to understand that it is the basis of creation of the > > > > universe. As such, this same being can understand that consciousness > > > > is different in various level of existence. For example, a dog has > > > > consciousness that is less developed than humans. But a dog's > > > > consciousness is higher than that of a tree. > > > > > > Consciousness is Consciousness. It does not develop. It does not become. > > > > > > > > > > > Similarly, the tree has a higher level of consiousness than that of a > > > > rock. This continuum follows through the minutest particles in the > > > > universe. At the most profound level, one can see that there must be a > > > > a consciousness that created space and time and that started the > > > > evolution of matter from the quarks to human beings. > > > > > > > > If you graph the energy output of the universe from the beginning to > > > > the end, you will see that the energy was at the infinite level at the > > > > time of the Big Bang. This is the paradox that scientists do not > > > > accept or understand since their equations break down at the instant of > > > > creation. > > > > > > > > Conversely, it appears now that the energy output of the universe will > > > > continue to dissipate ad infinitum. In other words, the universe > > > > started from infinity and will end in infinity. > > > > > > > > But throughout all of this cosmic lifecycle, Consiousness exists and > > > > will continue to do so forever in the Unified Field. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Xenophaneros Anartaxius" > > > > <anartaxius@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Sam Harris has published two blog posts on consciousness in the past > > > > > couple of weeks. > > > > > > > > > > http://www.samharris.org/blog/item/the-mystery-of-consciousness/ > > > > > > > > > > http://www.samharris.org/blog/item/the-mystery-of-consciousness-ii/ > > > > > > > > > > As consciousness is occasionally a subject entertained on this forum, > > > > > perhaps these essays will interest someone. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
